Dec 01 13:05:55 * NickE (~NickE@172.201.137.207) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 13:06:17 <NickE> early check in
Dec 01 13:10:06 <SeanS> heh...
Dec 01 13:10:11 <NickE> Hi Sean
Dec 01 13:10:13 <SeanS> just walked in the door here
Dec 01 13:10:29 <SeanS> gotta go get the giant bag of dog food out of the truck
Dec 01 13:10:48 <NickE> gotta go feed my brood
Dec 01 13:10:53 <NickE> :-)
Dec 01 13:11:01 <NickE> back in a bit
Dec 01 13:11:47 <SeanS> k
Dec 01 13:16:08 * Hippy (~captlychee@220.237.155.168) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 13:16:42 <Hippy> Good afternoon, everyone
Dec 01 13:30:20 * Received a CTCP PING 1196533614 from Hippy (to #knownspace)
Dec 01 13:30:23 <NickE> Hi DJ
Dec 01 13:30:44 <Hippy> Afternoon, Nick
Dec 01 13:31:01 <Hippy> How's it going in wintry Ontario?
Dec 01 13:31:12 <Hippy> If I have that right. . .
Dec 01 13:31:25 <NickE> Nope, thats Neil
Dec 01 13:31:34 <NickE> Wet n windy in teh UK
Dec 01 13:31:44 <SeanS> cold and cloudy here
Dec 01 13:32:06 <SeanS> reading the accidental time machine by joe haldeman. not bad
Dec 01 13:32:14 <SeanS> never read haldeman before
Dec 01 13:32:19 <NickE> Just bougth Old Twentieth by him
Dec 01 13:32:28 <NickE> I like a lot of his stuff
Dec 01 13:32:44 <NickE> But got FoW to read first ;-)
Dec 01 13:33:08 <SeanS> i havent got a copy of fleet yet
Dec 01 13:33:10 <NickE> Forever War is excellent
Dec 01 13:33:34 <NickE> (nit read any of the sequels tho)
Dec 01 13:33:50 <Hippy> I liked 'Forever War' but it's been a while since I read any Haldeman at all.
Dec 01 13:34:01 <NickE> Nothing like getting new shiny Niven in your mailbox
Dec 01 13:34:14 <Hippy> Fleet is on the pile to read but will sadly require a new cornea to look at it through.
Dec 01 13:34:30 <NickE> Most recent of his I read was Long Habit of Living, which I liked a lot
Dec 01 13:34:38 <NickE> ohbummer]
Dec 01 13:34:52 <NickE> laserable?
Dec 01 13:35:26 <Hippy> It's a bit annoying. I've yet to read even 'Destiny's Forge' but I'm on the waiting list so in due course they'll get me in for a graft
Dec 01 13:35:42 <Hippy> Just so long as it doesn't happen while I'm moving house
Dec 01 13:36:23 <NickE> Hope it ssoon then. DF is pretty good too
Dec 01 13:37:05 <Hippy> I read the opening essay on kzinti life and I thought that was excellent, so if the rest of the book is that good I sahll be pleased
Dec 01 13:37:17 <Hippy> Hey. . has Hal Colebatch ever been on here?
Dec 01 13:37:33 <SeanS> hmm
Dec 01 13:37:52 <NickE> I think if he was I missed it
Dec 01 13:38:21 <SeanS> ed lerner has been here
Dec 01 13:38:26 <Hippy> Just curious. As a fellow countryman I feel like I shuld stick together with him
Dec 01 13:38:33 <SeanS> dont remember hal colebatch
Dec 01 13:38:38 <SeanS> let me run a search of the log
Dec 01 13:38:43 <NickE> Ed has been in quite a bit lately
Dec 01 13:38:56 <Hippy> Ah, yes, the extremely good value and intersting Ed - and Paul Chafe for that matter
Dec 01 13:38:58 <NickE> Moer than Larry in fact :-)
Dec 01 13:39:03 <Hippy> Now all we need is Brenda Cooper
Dec 01 13:39:36 <NickE> Well, last time she was here was for Frank's wake
Dec 01 13:39:43 <Hippy> And Jerry Pournelle, David Gerrold, Michael Flynn. . .
Dec 01 13:39:55 <NickE> Well, yes :-)
Dec 01 13:40:50 <NickE> Poor old Bill Warren hasn't been well, so the reliquery is behind schedule
Dec 01 13:40:57 <Hippy> I read the FoW chat log and that was most interesting. I wish I'd been here for that - except that I would've had no cogent questions to ask
Dec 01 13:41:19 <NickE> I missed it on purpose as I didnt want to be spoiled
Dec 01 13:41:38 <SeanS> i logged it but didnt participate
Dec 01 13:41:56 <NickE> I'll read it when I've read the book
Dec 01 13:42:07 <SeanS> just checked the log and hal has not been on at least not with 'hal' as part of his nickname
Dec 01 13:42:20 <Hippy> Ah, well, I read it so now when I read the book I'll have things to watch out for, have doubts about, take umbrage about :)
Dec 01 13:42:22 <NickE> Didnt think so
Dec 01 13:42:31 <NickE> heh
Dec 01 13:42:47 <NickE> Gonna be multitasking tonight
Dec 01 13:43:05 <Hippy> Maybe he's 'zihr'?
Dec 01 13:43:07 <NickE> Got to eat at some point (brood fed already)
Dec 01 13:43:42 <NickE> Then do a conference call to record an episode commentary
Dec 01 13:43:43 <Hippy> I'll probably need a wake-up cup of tea in a minute, too
Dec 01 13:43:49 <NickE> Do this chat
Dec 01 13:44:00 <NickE> And maybe get some recording done
Dec 01 13:44:08 <Hippy> Episode of what??? How interestting!
Dec 01 13:44:29 <NickE> A Buffy audio drama I'm in
Dec 01 13:44:43 <NickE> www.buffybetweenthelines.com
Dec 01 13:44:53 <NickE> Its going well
Dec 01 13:44:57 <Hippy> Well, I'll be. . .how did you get onto that?
Dec 01 13:45:04 <NickE> I got asked :-)
Dec 01 13:45:48 <NickE> I do a lot of podcasting these days, mainly The Signal (the main Firefly/Serenity one)
Dec 01 13:45:56 <Hippy> This is a legitimate thing or a fan thing?
Dec 01 13:46:06 <NickE> Totally fan based
Dec 01 13:46:11 <NickE> so no money
Dec 01 13:46:43 <Hippy> I'm still impressed. Like that 'all fan' Star Trek they have online
Dec 01 13:47:00 <NickE> but it's organised very well and we have a professional composer doing the original music for free
Dec 01 13:47:55 <NickE> YEah, this is trying to do the same for Buffy but in audio form. Some of the voice actors are spookily like the original actors
Dec 01 13:48:02 <NickE> I'm not :-)
Dec 01 13:48:24 <NickE> But I'm English, so I get to do a fair go at Spike's attitude
Dec 01 13:49:32 <NickE> A Firefly Between The Lines is likely at some point as well, but we have Season 2 of BBtL first, then Angel, possibly Sugarshock too before we get to that
Dec 01 13:49:42 <Hippy> Ah, yes. just spotted you in the cast list
Dec 01 13:50:42 <Hippy> What is Sugarshock?
Dec 01 13:50:58 <NickE> If anyone is interested in becoming involved, acting, sound editing, beta reading and lots of other roles, applications are open now
Dec 01 13:51:17 <Hippy> Ah, the sun's just coming up and it's a rosy pink Dawn (reference) here
Dec 01 13:51:55 <Hippy> I'll let some of my friends know. They are much bigger fans of Buffy than I am
Dec 01 13:52:10 <NickE> heh. Tasha, who plays Dawn is spookily liek Michele Trachtenburg
Dec 01 13:52:25 <NickE> Please do, teh more the merrier
Dec 01 13:53:02 <NickE> http://betweenthelinesstudios.com/
Dec 01 13:53:13 <NickE> is where the sign up info is
Dec 01 13:54:37 <Hippy> I"ll mention it on tonight's IRC chat
Dec 01 13:55:14 <NickE> Cool.
Dec 01 13:56:57 <Hippy> Strange to not see Lensman here
Dec 01 13:57:00 * NickE has quit (Connection reset by peer)
Dec 01 13:58:03 <Hippy> Now that's interesting. I always thought that message was a server fault, but it appears it's a fault at the user end, since this server stays up forever
Dec 01 13:58:38 <SeanS> its primarily a windows error. or a router blip between the server and whoever
Dec 01 13:58:54 * NickE (~NickE@172.201.137.207) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 13:58:59 <NickE> wtf?
Dec 01 13:59:19 <NickE> I think Real Player was to blame there
Dec 01 13:59:29 <SeanS> on the local machine you see (in mirc) software caused connection abort. which basically means the windows tcp/ip protocol stack screwed up
Dec 01 13:59:57 <NickE> Was recording Summertime of Icarus (reading) from BBc7 when it all went dead...except Skype
Dec 01 14:00:16 <SeanS> on the same lan as the server, mirc under windows loses connection all the time. this linux box running xchat has stayed connected for months at a time
Dec 01 14:00:20 <NickE> The Metusalas Children one was good
Dec 01 14:00:44 <NickE> I'm running Euan's Java connection
Dec 01 14:01:00 <SeanS> under windows?
Dec 01 14:01:28 * Lensman (~lensman@24.124.118.241) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 14:01:35 <NickE> yeah
Dec 01 14:01:35 <Hippy> Well, I'm running mIRC because simple is better and familiar is comforting. Who is reading Sir Arthur's fine story?
Dec 01 14:01:37 <NickE> Hi Lens
Dec 01 14:01:46 <Hippy> Howdy, Lens
Dec 01 14:01:55 <Lensman> Hi, fen!
Dec 01 14:02:21 <Hippy> Lens, I have a question to ask about the way US streets are numbered
Dec 01 14:02:33 <Lensman> Yes?
Dec 01 14:02:52 <Hippy> I looked up your street on Google Maps out of a sense of idle curiosity, and discovered that your street is about two hundred yards long
Dec 01 14:03:04 <Hippy> So how can your house number be so high???
Dec 01 14:03:06 <NickE> hm not sure. I'll try recording again
Dec 01 14:03:47 <Hippy> I like the idea that they're doing old classic SF rather than these new stories
Dec 01 14:04:32 <NickE> Yeah. They are also doing some old 50s radio SF
Dec 01 14:04:37 <Hippy> I have to presume that the street numbering doesn't start from number 1 and go onwards. Each house would only be about 2 inches wide if that were the case
Dec 01 14:04:57 <Hippy> Even better!
Dec 01 14:06:49 <NickE> HAvent listned to and Atomic Stories yet, but will
Dec 01 14:07:10 <NickE> Gotta snag it quick tho as it's only on Listen Again for 7 days
Dec 01 14:07:18 <Lensman> We live at 123rd Terrace & Pinehurst. The 12325 is a result of us living near 123rd street. All numbers in our town are according to the "grid", so you may be able to tell where someone lives with just the number, *if* you know whether they live on a north/south or an east/west street. But to complicate matters, the numbered streets in K.C. KS run N/S, but elsewhere in the Greater Kansas City area run E/W.
Dec 01 14:07:59 <NickE> Atomic Tales actually
Dec 01 14:08:05 <Lensman> Not all cities in the U.S. use the grid system, tho.
Dec 01 14:09:26 <Hippy> No, but it does explain how you can have such high numbers in a short street. Mystery solved. I think the Canadians may use the same system, because some of their addresses are the same sort of thing
Dec 01 14:10:06 <Lensman> And house numbers on numbered streets start at zero from a "main street", and are differentiated "North" or "South". And much confusion arises when someone doesn't give a N. or S. designation...
Dec 01 14:11:33 <Lensman> Also, in Kansas City KS, the main street isn't "Main Street", it's "Minnesota Ave."
Dec 01 14:12:36 <Hippy> Well, there you go. I'm moving to Ballarat (50 miles NW of Melbourne) soon, and the 'North' and 'South' designations are important there, too
Dec 01 14:12:39 <Lensman> So, is this radio program y'all are talking about on an Internet station, or a nationally syndicated show?
Dec 01 14:12:44 <Hippy> So I expect a lot of mail to go missing
Dec 01 14:14:26 <Lensman> I once had a summer job delivering coupon books. Had an address once which turned out to be "North" when the caller said it was "South". Tried to tell that person when I finally found their address, and they were affronted... *they* knew where they lived, after all! (The customer is always right...)
Dec 01 14:16:38 <NickE> http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/listenagain/monday/
Dec 01 14:16:49 <Lensman> Well, I have stuff to do before company arrives. Hopefully I'll be back to chat for awhile at the "official" time.
Dec 01 14:16:50 <NickE> Its the BBC
Dec 01 14:17:00 * Lensman is now known as Lensman_free
Dec 01 14:18:39 <Hippy> Isn't it the official time now?
Dec 01 14:18:56 * Hippy better not have got up this early on a Sunday for nothing :)
Dec 01 14:19:19 <NickE> I think teh normal time is 8pm GMT
Dec 01 14:19:25 <NickE> Noon PST
Dec 01 14:20:17 <NickE> Which is when Larry shows up if he's going to
Dec 01 14:20:27 <NickE> usually
Dec 01 14:25:12 <Hippy> Ah. .. of course! I checked the time on the server which is of course, Kentucky time
Dec 01 14:25:41 <Hippy> So I could've had a few extra hours sleep. . .ah, well. Sleep is for the decaffeinated
Dec 01 14:26:07 <Lensman_free> Official start time is in about 1/2 hour; boilerplate says if Larry shows up, it's about 1 pm PST, which is 1 1/2 hours from now.
Dec 01 14:26:49 <NickE> heh. The commentary I'm doing is being moderated by someone calling himself The Encaffeinated One
Dec 01 14:27:11 <NickE> Oh yeah, forgat that
Dec 01 14:31:55 <Hippy> That's 8:00AM here I've been getting up this early for no reason. There is even a rooster crowing outside at the moment
Dec 01 14:32:07 <NickE> <grin>
Dec 01 14:33:11 <NickE> Nice day?
Dec 01 14:34:49 <Hippy> Shaping up to be cool and a bit windy. Which will be a relief after the swelter of the last two days
Dec 01 14:35:07 <Hippy> I was sweating out of places I never knew I had
Dec 01 14:35:13 <NickE> Oh that was good. Summertime of Icarus read by Tim Piggot Smith
Dec 01 14:35:21 * Lensman_free is now known as Lensman
Dec 01 14:35:57 <Hippy> A good choice of reader there
Dec 01 14:37:00 <Lensman> Is xihr an actual person or a ghost?
Dec 01 14:37:28 <NickE> not sure. <waves at xihr>
Dec 01 14:37:42 <Lensman> Hi xihr! Do we know you?
Dec 01 14:39:30 <NickE> Lens, there seems to be some good discussion in the RWRPG list agin
Dec 01 14:39:47 <NickE> Been quite for a while
Dec 01 14:39:55 <Hippy> Ooh, I might get in on that
Dec 01 14:39:59 <NickE> (Dave Gordon busy with family stuff)
Dec 01 14:40:17 <NickE> Please do, some good kzinti stuff
Dec 01 14:40:40 <Lensman> Oh, are you on that too Nick? Yes, I agree. Different slant on things, tho... I agree that it makes a more interesting scenario if the hominids on the Map of Earth are sentient, or some of them anyway, but strictly non-canonical!
Dec 01 14:40:43 <NickE> I need to go see Dave to get the ARC signed
Dec 01 14:41:11 <Hippy> I always thought he did a good job on the Kdatlyno, talking about their long vengeance plans. Room for an MKW story in that
Dec 01 14:41:20 <NickE> Yeah, RW is big enough that canon is OK< but can be fun to mess with in a game setting
Dec 01 14:41:30 <NickE> Aye
Dec 01 14:41:50 <Lensman> Whose Kdatlyno story?
Dec 01 14:41:54 <NickE> I'm there, just not very active lately
Dec 01 14:42:24 <NickE> er Larry's I assume
Dec 01 14:42:35 <NickE> Grendel mostly I imagine
Dec 01 14:43:17 <Hippy> John - er, RWRPG guy - Hewitt? Anyway, he wrote some good background on the kdatlyno for the game that would make good background for an MKW story
Dec 01 14:43:39 <NickE> Oh Hewitts stuff was excellent
Dec 01 14:43:44 <Lensman> Oh, I see, you mean Lloobee's (sp?) revenge on his kidnappers, I thought you meant the Kdat race vs. the Kzinti.
Dec 01 14:43:58 <NickE> Such a shame he's gone
Dec 01 14:44:08 <Hippy> He wrote that their culture is rich in literature of long-term vengeance, so of cours they would exact vengenace against the Kzinti over a long period
Dec 01 14:44:31 <Hippy> Yes, it's a terrible shame
Dec 01 14:44:37 <Lensman> I'm very sad that I never got around to starting work on my Concordance until years after Hewitt passed away. A kindred soul there, I would love to have corresponded with him!
Dec 01 14:44:58 <NickE> That would indeed have been interesting
Dec 01 14:45:12 <Lensman> And I'd give my eye-teeth for copies of the letters he exchanged with Larry...
Dec 01 14:45:21 <NickE> heh
Dec 01 14:45:38 <Hippy> Now there's a collection worth publishing
Dec 01 14:46:01 <NickE> agreed
Dec 01 14:46:59 <Lensman> It's very frustrating to me to know that some stuff in the RPG should be considered canonical, 'cuz Hewitt worked it out with Larry. But I have no idea what is and what isn't!
Dec 01 14:47:45 <Hippy> Hang on. Wouldn't that then make stuff in the MKW stories equally canonical?
Dec 01 14:48:01 <NickE> If I was writing fan fic (not) I'd consider most of it as good as canon
Dec 01 14:48:14 <NickE> BBL gotta go eat
Dec 01 14:48:14 <Lensman> I've included some of Hewitt's stuff in the specifications of KS worlds and their stars. Length of year, satellites, stuff like that.
Dec 01 14:48:16 <Hippy> Me, too
Dec 01 14:48:53 <Lensman> Hippy: Only to the extent that the author ran stuff past Larry before finishing the story.
Dec 01 14:49:01 <Hippy> For example, have you included that Down has a large Asian population? That's in the game, but not in 'The Handicapped'
Dec 01 14:49:29 <Lensman> And we have no evidence Larry collaborated on any of the stories. AFAIK he acted as the editor.
Dec 01 14:49:47 <Hippy> Hmm. So what about the Jotoki? Are they canon since they appear in 'Fly By Night'?
Dec 01 14:49:57 <Lensman> Anyway, look at /A Darker Geometry/. No way did Larry approve of the excesses of that!
Dec 01 14:50:43 <Hippy> LOL!! Bloody good thing he didn't, either. What on Earth was. ..er. .. what's his name thinking?
Dec 01 14:50:56 * Hippy shamefacedly admits he can't remember who wrote it
Dec 01 14:51:17 <Lensman> Certainly Jotaki are canonical, as they appeared in "Fly-By-Night". That doesn't mean everything said about them is canonical, tho. However, Bey *did* raise the question in the story about the Jotoki being the source of the Kzinti star-faring technology. So it appears Larry's left that possibility open.
Dec 01 14:52:06 <Lensman> Gregory Benford and IIRC Mark O. Martin (Lensman just added the MKW stories to his IKSC bibliography.)
Dec 01 14:52:45 <Hippy> Benford! I knew it had a 'B' but I wasn't game to say David Brin
Dec 01 14:53:18 <Lensman> Brin is a better writer than that. In my highly prejudiced opinion, anyway.
Dec 01 14:54:07 <Hippy> Well, Brin would respect the canon rather than 're-inventing' it to suit his own ends
Dec 01 14:54:33 <Lensman> That's part of what I mean by "better", yah.
Dec 01 14:56:05 <Hippy> "I don't like the idea of big, intelligent felines. So I've made the Kzinti plastic androids who dress up as big, intelligent felines. In reality, they resemble the Furballines, which feature in my upcoming novel 'Furballs Do Oahu'." That is too self-indulgent
Dec 01 14:57:14 * Hippy afk briefly to re-invent the tnuctip so they resmeble a cup of tea
Dec 01 14:57:22 <Lensman> Someone keeps insisting in the MKW article at Wikipedia that all MKW stories are canonical. I re-wrote the section to indicate otherwise. Looked at it just a couple of days ago... pinhead actually re-wrote my entry, saying that Ed Lerner's comment re ADG wasn't "official" as it didn't come directly from Larry himself!
Dec 01 14:59:02 <Lensman> Hippy: Are you actually referring to ADG? It's been too long since I read it (well not really...), I don't really remember all the reasons it left a bad taste in my mouth. I *do* remember the Puppeteer "Guardian" soldiers... *Shudder*
Dec 01 15:00:27 * Dan (~vila@75.117.31.180) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 15:00:42 <Dan> Greetings, Programs!
Dec 01 15:00:43 <Lensman> Welcome to the Niven chat, Dan!
Dec 01 15:01:01 <Hippy> Yes. In ADG Benford re-invents the Outsiders as some kind of extra-universal beings brought to us by hyperintelligent pan-dimensional beings and it was just stupid
Dec 01 15:01:19 <Hippy> Selected time of day greetings to you, Dan.
Dec 01 15:01:36 <Lensman> Oh yah, I remember his absurd slant on Outsiders. I just don't remember his slant, if any, on the Kzinti.
Dec 01 15:01:40 * Hippy has no idea what time it is where D - oh, hang on. Georgia
Dec 01 15:02:00 <Dan> Yeah, it's just after 3 PM here, Hippy.
Dec 01 15:02:38 <Dan> My wife and I just got back from a nice little walk to the local store. About 45 minutes walk each way.
Dec 01 15:02:46 <Hippy> He didn't have one. I was merely describing the generic fan writer (or legitimate writer, if Benford is the example) who claims to write in someone's universe but actually just pushes their own barrows
Dec 01 15:03:04 <Hippy> How's your arm, Dan?
Dec 01 15:03:25 <Lensman> Hippy: -k-
Dec 01 15:04:02 <Dan> Doing much better. I'm typing with both hands now, but still can't lift my left arm very high. I can just about get it parallel to the floor now.
Dec 01 15:04:19 <Lensman> I guess xihr is a ghost or a 'bot, as s/he never responded to our greetings.
Dec 01 15:05:08 <Dan> They were here last night when I was talking with Sean.
Dec 01 15:05:14 <SeanS> xihr has been here since thursday. I dont know who it is
Dec 01 15:05:23 <Hippy> They might be AFK until the official start time
Dec 01 15:05:39 <Lensman> It is now after official start time.
Dec 01 15:05:45 <Hippy> Oh, well no human (other than Frank) could stay on for that amount of time
Dec 01 15:06:00 <SeanS> heh
Dec 01 15:06:02 <Hippy> So it is
Dec 01 15:06:18 <Hippy> We could kick them and see if they come back :)
Dec 01 15:06:40 <SeanS> most clients auto rejoin if set
Dec 01 15:07:02 <Hippy> Oh. . .well, I'm out of ideas :)
Dec 01 15:07:17 <Lensman> Not nice. Maybe they're monitoring. Which I need to do, as I'm expecting company in a couple of hours and haven't gotten dressed yet.
Dec 01 15:07:25 * chief_strike_anywhere (~chief_strike_anywhere@81.102.177.62) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 15:07:31 <Hippy> Ha! It's one of Larry's publishers logging the chat for anything libellous
Dec 01 15:07:34 <chief_strike_anywhere> good day, eh?
Dec 01 15:07:39 <Lensman> Ho Chief!
Dec 01 15:07:45 <chief_strike_anywhere> hey Lens
Dec 01 15:07:47 <Hippy> Hail to the Chief
Dec 01 15:08:02 <chief_strike_anywhere> hey hosers.
Dec 01 15:08:49 * Hippy gets out his Bob and Doug McKenzie record as we appear to be going excessively Canadian today
Dec 01 15:08:52 <Lensman> Libelous? Okay BENFORD IS A TALENT-LESS HACK, AND HE SPITS ON THE SIDEWALK! There that ought to do it.
Dec 01 15:09:13 <Lensman> Eh?
Dec 01 15:09:29 <Hippy> Yep. Well, poor ol' Sean is going to get it now
Dec 01 15:09:40 <SeanS> heh
Dec 01 15:09:51 <chief_strike_anywhere> he hasn't been the same since Anna Nicole Smith died
Dec 01 15:09:59 <SeanS> oh god... got again
Dec 01 15:10:16 <Hippy> Bob and Doug McKenzie where these two hick Canadian brothers, as immortalised by Dave Thomas and Rick Moranis
Dec 01 15:11:27 * Dan pours Sean a cool goblet of wine and tells him to edit the chat log before Julie can read it.
Dec 01 15:11:40 <chief_strike_anywhere> i found a mouse in my beer, eh/
Dec 01 15:11:49 <Hippy> So who is looking forward to Inferno 2 which will be released about one million years from now?
Dec 01 15:11:54 <chief_strike_anywhere> so we want some free beer, hoser
Dec 01 15:12:22 <Hippy> That's them!
Dec 01 15:12:36 <Lensman> - /Purgatorio/ has been delayed?
Dec 01 15:12:36 <Hippy> What was the movie? 'Strange Brew'!
Dec 01 15:12:45 <Dan> I'm looking forward to Inferno II, and having to buy another copy of Inferno I just to see what the changes are.
Dec 01 15:13:10 <Hippy> No, but the gap between sending it to the publishers and it actually hitting the bookstands is so bloody long. . .
Dec 01 15:13:16 <Lensman> SCTV. William Shatner. "Leftenant". Back bacon. My list of Canadian cultural references is pretty short...
Dec 01 15:13:18 * senax (~senax@24.252.63.188) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 15:13:27 <Hippy> Same here, Dan
Dec 01 15:13:32 <Dan> But just to be difficult, I'll wait for them to come out in glorious paperback!
Dec 01 15:13:38 * chief_strike_anywhere (~chief_strike_anywhere@81.102.177.XX) has left #knownspace
Dec 01 15:13:40 <senax> Howdy.
Dec 01 15:13:51 <Lensman> Yes, it appears we Niven completists will have to buy the new edition of /Inferno/.
Dec 01 15:13:53 <Dan> Hiya senax.
Dec 01 15:13:57 <Hippy> G'day, Senax
Dec 01 15:14:05 <Lensman> Hi Senax.
Dec 01 15:14:05 * chief_strike_anywhere (~chief_strike_anywhere@81.102.177.62) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 15:14:11 <chief_strike_anywhere> whoops
Dec 01 15:14:20 <Hippy> My paperback from 1975 is falling to bits anyway
Dec 01 15:14:23 * Dan duct tapes Mark to the channel.
Dec 01 15:14:24 <SeanS> xihr is in san francisco based on an IP search
Dec 01 15:14:35 <Lensman> Hey, come again when you can stay awhile Chief!
Dec 01 15:14:45 <chief_strike_anywhere> heh. i'm here. just hit the wrong button
Dec 01 15:14:46 <Lensman> LOL
Dec 01 15:14:52 <chief_strike_anywhere> there is an 11 year old child hitting me in the head
Dec 01 15:14:57 <Hippy> It could be Rick Cook, then. Woo hoo!
Dec 01 15:15:12 <Lensman> Chief = Inferno?
Dec 01 15:16:08 <chief_strike_anywhere> yeah, it's me
Dec 01 15:16:32 <Lensman> Kids-- can't live with 'em, can't strangle 'em.
Dec 01 15:16:49 <Hippy> You can in India
Dec 01 15:16:58 <chief_strike_anywhere> soon they will be big enough to strangle me.
Dec 01 15:17:02 <Dan> But spanking is still legal in Britan, as I recall.
Dec 01 15:17:40 <chief_strike_anywhere> even playing asia's greatest hits isn't getting rid of them
Dec 01 15:17:49 <Lensman> Ghu... they just had a piece in the news about all the European countries which have outlawed spanking. *Sigh* Gives me a hankering to go back and re-read the /1633/ novels.
Dec 01 15:18:57 <senax> I ran across a discussion of the same issue on the radio yesterday. Is spanking a big thing in the news for some reason?
Dec 01 15:19:21 * Hippy just noticed that Mark's nick is long than ten letters. How did he do that?
Dec 01 15:19:41 <Dan> Dunno, never watch the news here. Unless it's on BBC America.
Dec 01 15:19:42 <Lensman> I think they said Massachusets (sp?) has a bill to outlaw it being considered.
Dec 01 15:20:13 <chief_strike_anywhere> it is illegal in scotland
Dec 01 15:20:15 <Lensman> For non- U.S. citizens, Mass. is one of our states of the union.
Dec 01 15:20:47 <SeanS> Hippy: it is a private server. i didnt set a maximum nick length
Dec 01 15:21:11 <senax> Stupid Massholes. :-)
Dec 01 15:21:21 <Lensman> *chuckle*
Dec 01 15:21:38 <Lensman> I consider myself a liberal on some issues... not that one!
Dec 01 15:21:49 <Dan> Gives "Banned in Boston" a whole new meaning, eh?
Dec 01 15:22:28 <Lensman> Actually, no. "Banned in Boston" has always had the meaning of "Censored by the overly sensitive".
Dec 01 15:23:47 <Lensman> I always liked Mark Twain's response to censorship. "I thank you, as the controversy you've generated will mean more people will buy my book..."
Dec 01 15:23:50 <Hippy> Sean: ah, I get it. I thought that was a general IRC convention. Good to know it's not
Dec 01 15:24:30 <Hippy> So that's where that comes from!
Dec 01 15:24:54 <Lensman> What means "IRC convention" ?
Dec 01 15:25:19 <Hippy> A general rule that applies to all Internet Relay Chat servers
Dec 01 15:25:31 <Dan> Internet Relay Chat rule-of-thumb.
Dec 01 15:25:35 <Hippy> At least, that's how I meant it. Not a con in fannish terms
Dec 01 15:25:55 <Lensman> Okay. I was trying to fit "IRC" with "Banned in Boston"... :)
Dec 01 15:26:10 <senax> Specified in RFC 1459.
Dec 01 15:26:11 <Hippy> Ah, no. Separate conversation with sean
Dec 01 15:26:17 <Dan> Different puzzle, Lens. Those pieces won't fit.
Dec 01 15:26:44 <Lensman> LOL! "Some people think there's only one way to put a jigsaw puzzle together." --Dennis the Menace
Dec 01 15:27:05 <Hippy> Although this is kind of a con. I shall play the part of the overseas visitor who nearly got killed looking the wrong way before crossing the street
Dec 01 15:27:51 <SeanS> if i joined an irc network, like chatnet or undernet, i would have to conform to their nick rules
Dec 01 15:27:55 <Lensman> Chat rooms are much like a party conversation at a con, yes.
Dec 01 15:28:25 <Hippy> Oh, good, Lens. Then I can also complain about the beer :)
Dec 01 15:28:56 <Dan> As I had one character say in my Nightwatch novel, "welcome to chat, where conversations are non-linear and usually unbounded by time..."
Dec 01 15:29:07 <senax> Speaking of cons, anyone planning on attending Worldcon next year?
Dec 01 15:29:10 <Hippy> "What is this tepid concoction? I'm off to the Berlin in 2012 room. They'll have beer!"
Dec 01 15:29:35 <Lensman> Well I'd offer you a virtual sampling of what a relative has in our fridge, but it's Budweiser... which I understand ranks somwhat lower than Moose piss (there's another Canadian reference) to those who actually like beer.
Dec 01 15:30:10 <Hippy> Yes, I'm not a huge fan of American beer. . .
Dec 01 15:30:18 <SeanS> hmm, all this talk of alcohol
Dec 01 15:30:32 <Hippy> Senax: I was planning to but I don't have enough frequent flyer points to make it
Dec 01 15:30:34 <Dan> I'm afraid the only Con I'll be attending is LibertyCon next year. I'm going to be on a panel about e-zins and internet publishing. So I'll get mixed in with the Pro writers, for once! LOL!
Dec 01 15:30:36 * SeanS wanders into the kitchen to concoct a bloody mary
Dec 01 15:31:34 <Lensman> Some of the local fen swear by some of the local "micro-brews". But it seems that the success of Bud and competitors is entirely a result of advertising, not quality.
Dec 01 15:31:41 * Larry (~Larry@64.175.211.26) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 15:31:42 * senax is still drinking coffee...time enough for beer during the Oklahoma/Missouri game later.
Dec 01 15:31:48 <Dan> Hello Larry.
Dec 01 15:31:53 <Hippy> Eep!
Dec 01 15:31:58 <Lensman> Hi Larry!
Dec 01 15:31:58 <senax> Hi Larry.
Dec 01 15:31:59 <chief_strike_anywhere> Hello Larry.
Dec 01 15:32:08 <Larry> Hello all.
Dec 01 15:32:10 <Lensman> How are the eyes, Larry?
Dec 01 15:32:19 <Hippy> Good afternoon, Larry
Dec 01 15:32:55 <Larry> Right eye is not cyborg. Improvement wasn't huge. We're waiting on the left.
Dec 01 15:33:18 <Hippy> Oh, a lens implant?
Dec 01 15:33:51 <NickE> back
Dec 01 15:33:53 <NickE> wow!
Dec 01 15:33:54 <Larry> Yes, a lens replacement to cure a cataract.
Dec 01 15:34:06 <NickE> Hi Larry, Frank, Dan, Mark
Dec 01 15:34:35 <Dan> Hiya Nick, pull up a chair and make yourself comfortable.
Dec 01 15:34:35 <Lensman> Larry, there's a question I've been dying to ask for months now. I once had the pleasure of chatting with you at a con... I think it was in 1980 or '81... and I asked why the Pak would build something so fragile as the Ringworld to house their breeders. You replied that breeding space was not the reason they built it. Does Niven know why the Pak built the Ringworld (assuming they did), and if so is he willing to tell us?
Dec 01 15:34:44 <Hippy> You haven't noticed any huge improvement? They're supposed to be near miraculous
Dec 01 15:35:52 <Dan> I'm betting that the answer to Lens' question will cost him 3 billion stars...
Dec 01 15:35:58 <Dan> :)
Dec 01 15:36:00 <NickE> Well naturally
Dec 01 15:36:05 <Larry> Hippy, my eyes have complications.
Dec 01 15:36:21 <Hippy> I'm sad to hear that
Dec 01 15:36:44 <Hippy> That's worse than Dr Pournelle's problems at the moment
Dec 01 15:36:57 <Lensman> I hope the complications aren't serious, Larry.
Dec 01 15:37:13 <NickE> well of course
Dec 01 15:37:15 <Larry> Lensman, I had a nebulous theory re the building of the Ringworld. At this point I'll stick with what's in Ringworld's Children.
Dec 01 15:37:35 <Lensman> Okay.
Dec 01 15:37:56 <NickE> Works for me :-)
Dec 01 15:38:25 <Dan> Larry, my wife just asked me to thank you for "Lucifer's Hammer", that's her favorite of your & Jerry's books.
Dec 01 15:38:25 <Lensman> My idea, shot Down In Flames. :)
Dec 01 15:38:28 <NickE> Aergerly anticipating starting on FoW shortly. Got it this week
Dec 01 15:39:13 <chief_strike_anywhere> nicke -> i haven't been able to afford it yet (sigh).
Dec 01 15:39:27 <chief_strike_anywhere> larry -> I hear tell you're done with Inferno II !
Dec 01 15:39:50 <NickE> I'll lend it to you when we get around to that drink!
Dec 01 15:40:06 <chief_strike_anywhere> Yeah. I won't bring the children this time! when are we doing that?
Dec 01 15:40:15 <Lensman> I made the mistake of buying it from the local Books-a-Million because it's close to home. I should have got it at Borders or Barnes & Noble, as they typically have discounts on best-selling titles.
Dec 01 15:41:12 <Hippy> We used to have Borders here but they closed down. Not making enough profit. God knows what they expected their margin to be
Dec 01 15:41:18 <NickE> When I finally get my arse in gear :-)
Dec 01 15:41:21 <Lensman> I can only hope Larry gets a percentage of the profit, not just a fixed royalty per copy.
Dec 01 15:41:34 <NickE> Busy with new job and Joss Whedon related stuff
Dec 01 15:41:38 * Hippy reflects on how good it is to see 'arse' again
Dec 01 15:41:40 <chief_strike_anywhere> i buy almost everything off the net now. there aren't any good bookstores in my community
Dec 01 15:41:41 <Lensman> Well, there's always Amazon.com!
Dec 01 15:41:48 <Larry> We're done with Inferno II--again. This time for sure. Barring proofs.
Dec 01 15:41:58 <chief_strike_anywhere> i don't think half these nothern scumbags can read.
Dec 01 15:42:02 <NickE> <fnarf> what *my* arse!
Dec 01 15:42:03 <chief_strike_anywhere> (did I say that? gasp!)
Dec 01 15:42:11 <NickE> First list moon!
Dec 01 15:42:25 <chief_strike_anywhere> eee by gum, it's grim up north
Dec 01 15:42:33 <Hippy> Just the spelling. It reminds me of when we spoke English
Dec 01 15:42:51 <Lensman> Larry, there was some interest on the LN-l list over what revisions have been made to /Inferno/ (I). Is this the final polish it never received, or just some added quotes from Dante, or what?
Dec 01 15:43:26 * chief_strike_anywhere agree's with Lensman
Dec 01 15:43:26 <NickE> Been looking fwd to Inferno II for a long time
Dec 01 15:43:34 <Lensman> Chief: That's "Did I say that OUT LOUD?"
Dec 01 15:44:04 <chief_strike_anywhere> lensman -> You see, there is an inside your head voice, and an outside your head voice
Dec 01 15:44:44 * Hippy is keen to respect Larry's privacy but anxious to know what these eye complications are
Dec 01 15:44:47 <chief_strike_anywhere> Right now I'm stuck on Reading Patrick O'brian Books. Master and Commander and all that stuff.
Dec 01 15:45:12 <chief_strike_anywhere> it's all my dad's fault. he insisted. and there are 20 of them
Dec 01 15:45:47 <Lensman> Chief: I hope you enjoy them more than I did. I love Alexander Kent's "Richard Bolitho" series, and Hornblower is pretty good altho unreservedly depressing. :(
Dec 01 15:45:54 <Hippy> 20? It must get down to 'Master and Commander: Cooking with Gas' or something
Dec 01 15:46:12 <Larry> Everythign we wanted to change in Inferno I went into plotting for Inferno II, barring one thing. A refernce to a character in I was taken out, because she's major in Inferno II.
Dec 01 15:46:27 <Lensman> "Master & Commander: The Ladies' Tea Party"
Dec 01 15:46:41 <Hippy> LOL, Lens
Dec 01 15:47:13 <Hippy> Now I must read Inferno I again.
Dec 01 15:47:14 <Larry> Eye complications are Fuchs' Dystrophy (a cornea problem) and a staph infection in the lids.
Dec 01 15:47:40 <chief_strike_anywhere> i think they are really good, that's the problem.
Dec 01 15:47:40 <Hippy> So will they need to graft the cornea?
Dec 01 15:47:46 <chief_strike_anywhere> i haven't seen the movie.
Dec 01 15:47:52 <Dan> Ouch! Larry, I hope that infection gets better rapidly.
Dec 01 15:48:17 <Lensman> I've been told the M&C series improves with the 3rd volume. I did *not* like the didactic tone of the first two, and the bizarre grammer was distracting, too. I've read actual stories written during the period, none used the "wrong" form of "to be" that I recall. Dunnon where O'Brien gets that!
Dec 01 15:48:48 <NickE> Well, good antibiotics will hopefully kill teh infecton
Dec 01 15:49:07 <Lensman> Larry: Oh! I'm so sorry to hear that. If we want to send a get-well card, should that go thru Baen Books or is there a faster way to get it to you?
Dec 01 15:49:09 <NickE> Eyes urgery seems to be improving all the time
Dec 01 15:49:11 <chief_strike_anywhere> lensman -> i found the first one hard going. i think it's because he doesn't really explain anything (like how the ship operates). you just kind of have to pick it up.
Dec 01 15:49:33 <chief_strike_anywhere> after a while, you don't notice, but you stop wondering what is going on and realize that you know.
Dec 01 15:50:11 * senax will be back in a while.
Dec 01 15:50:17 <NickE> later Frank
Dec 01 15:50:18 * senax is now known as senax_afk
Dec 01 15:50:39 <Larry> I too like the "Master & Commander" series.
Dec 01 15:50:58 <Lensman> Chief: Well I hate to contradict you, but one thing I really disliked was how he spent pages and pages on which sail is just where. There was a diagram at the front of the book, all that lecture was completely unnecessary. Plus I've read any number of Napoleonic era novels, no other author found it either necessary or desirable to tell me the name of every single sail on the bloody ship!
Dec 01 15:51:08 <NickE> I enjoyed the film
Dec 01 15:51:26 <Lensman> The film was *excellent*! Yes indeed.
Dec 01 15:51:33 <NickE> Was pleasantly surprised that a clumsily named film was actually very good
Dec 01 15:51:54 <NickE> not read teh books
Dec 01 15:52:02 <SeanS> i havent read them either
Dec 01 15:52:04 <chief_strike_anywhere> lensman -> heh.
Dec 01 15:52:25 <Hippy> That's not a bad critique, Nick. 'Clumsily named' does describe a lot of modern movies
Dec 01 15:52:33 <NickE> true
Dec 01 15:52:34 <chief_strike_anywhere> the books are good, trust me :-)
Dec 01 15:52:55 <chief_strike_anywhere> lensman -> I didn't know where any of the sails were, now I do.
Dec 01 15:52:56 <SeanS> well, i am a nautical kind of person, so on your recommendation ,mark, i will give them a shot
Dec 01 15:53:00 <Hippy> Now that I know that Larry likes them I shall put them on the pile to be read. . .after Inferno II
Dec 01 15:53:16 <Lensman> Well, if Larry likes them... I should give them another shot. I really do like that sub-genre. Slightly off-topic, I also highly recommend the "Sharpe" series by Bernard Cornwell. British army, not navy.
Dec 01 15:53:34 <NickE> Again, teh BBC series was excellent
Dec 01 15:53:38 * Hippy looks nervously at the huge, teetering pile of books to be read
Dec 01 15:54:01 <NickE> and jsut called "Sharpe"
Dec 01 15:54:05 <NickE> :-)
Dec 01 15:54:11 <NickE> Sean Bean
Dec 01 15:54:14 <Hippy> I didn't like 'Sharpe' as much as Hornblower. And when will the Royal Mariesn get a series?
Dec 01 15:54:19 <Lensman> Well I recently reduced by "to read" pile by the height of /Saturn's Race/. I really enjoyed that one!
Dec 01 15:54:25 <chief_strike_anywhere> My wife likes Sean Bean. She' s not allowed to watch sharpe
Dec 01 15:54:31 <chief_strike_anywhere> the drooling was getting on my nerves
Dec 01 15:54:34 <NickE> My pile is wobbling
Dec 01 15:54:41 <NickE> heh
Dec 01 15:54:45 <Lensman> Nick: I was introduced to Sharpe via the BBC series. I think the books are better.
Dec 01 15:55:05 <NickE> Well, if one comes my way, I'll give it a go
Dec 01 15:55:09 <Lensman> Er, that is, the TV show is very, very good but the books are even better!
Dec 01 15:55:18 <chief_strike_anywhere> i've never ead them. i'll have to add them to the list
Dec 01 15:55:48 <Hippy> 'Saturn's Race' That reminds me of the question of which universe 'Building Harlequin's Moon' is set in
Dec 01 15:55:57 <Larry> Inferno I and II are both due September next year, I think.
Dec 01 15:56:01 <NickE> my pile is mostly comics at teh moment, but FOW is the next real book :-)
Dec 01 15:56:10 <Hippy> And now we have Larry here to ask!
Dec 01 15:56:12 <NickE> cool
Dec 01 15:56:24 <Lensman> I liked the sly reference to Sean Bean's character in LOTR, where he cuts himself on a shard of Narsil and says, "That's sharp(e)!"
Dec 01 15:56:49 <NickE> I'm sure Brenda said it was not any established universe
Dec 01 15:56:52 <Lensman> Larry, will either or both Infernos come out in hardcover?
Dec 01 15:57:15 <NickE> How much reworking (if any) has Inferno 1 had then?
Dec 01 15:57:23 <Hippy> Nick: Oh, well. That's that answered
Dec 01 15:57:58 <Larry> "Building Harlequin's Moon" has its own universe.
Dec 01 15:58:06 <NickE> What he said :-)
Dec 01 15:58:37 <NickE> short bio break
Dec 01 15:58:48 <Larry> Infernos...hardcover...sorry, I don't know. It's a good guess, though.
Dec 01 15:58:49 <Hippy> Oh :( Here was I putting it at the far end of the 'Dragons of Heorot' universe. Ah, well
Dec 01 15:58:57 <Lensman> Well, Jerry's blog said he was looking up Dante quotes for the first 10 chapters of /Inferno/. Or at least, I *think* that's what he said... there was some argument on the list over what he meant. So, Larry, are you adding quotes from Dante to introduce chapters in /Inferno/ (I), or was Jerry talking about the sequel?
Dec 01 16:00:08 <Larry> Yes, Jerry is adding quotes from Dante to Inferno I. I don't see that as a major change. They're in II too.
Dec 01 16:00:21 <Lensman> Okay, thanks Larry.
Dec 01 16:01:32 <NickE> Well, I'll get it anyway, my paperback is getting dogeared
Dec 01 16:01:47 <Lensman> Larry, did you dump the /Purgatorio/ title?
Dec 01 16:02:22 <Larry> Lensman, thanks for the Mother's Song on larryniven-l.
Dec 01 16:02:33 <Lensman> :) My pleasure.
Dec 01 16:02:42 <NickE> may have to vanish at short notice for this episode commentary soon
Dec 01 16:03:06 <Lensman> Altho I have to wonder, do kids of the current generation hear exactly the same things from *their* parents?
Dec 01 16:03:16 <SeanS> yes
Dec 01 16:03:21 <NickE> Larry, any progress on Bowl of Heaven?
Dec 01 16:03:23 <SeanS> my girlfriend has a 9 year old
Dec 01 16:03:31 <Larry> The "Purgatorio" title was an argument I lost. Jerry thinks there's space for a "Purgatorio" too. I think he's wrong.
Dec 01 16:03:38 <Lensman> Darn, I really need to get off and take a shower. I hate leaving in the middle of a wonderful chat!
Dec 01 16:03:44 <NickE> me too!
Dec 01 16:04:06 <Dan> The chat logs are running.
Dec 01 16:04:07 <Hippy> Well, our deathless comments will be logged :)
Dec 01 16:04:11 <NickE> heh
Dec 01 16:04:24 <Larry> No progress on "The Bowl of Heaven". Sorry.
Dec 01 16:04:27 <Dan> Sean and I both log every word said in here.
Dec 01 16:04:28 <NickE> aww
Dec 01 16:04:43 <Lensman> LOL! Well as long as they're archived at the larryniven.org site, they *are* deathless!
Dec 01 16:05:05 <SeanS> i log the chatroom but not any private chats or private messages
Dec 01 16:05:06 <chief_strike_anywhere> heh. i just updated all of them as well.
Dec 01 16:05:07 <NickE> keen to see that develop if it can as it's been brewinga a while...tho not as long as Inferno II
Dec 01 16:05:07 <Lensman> I forget, what's /Bowl of Heaven/ about? Is it in an established universe?
Dec 01 16:05:21 <Hippy> Well, I'm logging here, too, so even in the event of global catastrophe they should survive
Dec 01 16:05:42 <SeanS> I keep hoping for another novel set in the smoke ring. I think that is a fascinating enviroment
Dec 01 16:05:59 <chief_strike_anywhere> seans -> yes yes yes.
Dec 01 16:06:01 <Dan> Same here, private chats aren't logged. Anything I nee from those get copy/pasted into a word processor file.
Dec 01 16:06:05 <Lensman> Larry keeps saying /The Ghost Ships/ is dead. I keep hoping for CPR...
Dec 01 16:06:57 <Hippy> And a Gil the ARM novel. What about that?
Dec 01 16:07:09 <chief_strike_anywhere> the smoke ring is my favourite big environment
Dec 01 16:07:49 <Larry> I believe I'm through with the Smoke Ring. It did everything I wanted done. Fess up, if you want more stories you can daydream them, can't you? I gave you all the tools.
Dec 01 16:07:58 <SeanS> very true
Dec 01 16:08:12 <NickE> Love the playgrounds
Dec 01 16:08:15 <Larry> As for Gil the ARM, those are hard to write. I've tried a few more and got stuck.
Dec 01 16:08:16 <Hippy> There was a big thread on the list about it. The other Trojan point to the Admiralty's might have a thriving civilisation in it
Dec 01 16:08:27 * chief_strike_anywhere doesn't need encouragment to daydream.
Dec 01 16:08:39 <NickE> Dreamer fithp
Dec 01 16:08:59 <Lensman> Daydreaming is easy, yah. Writing a story worth selling... now that's hard.
Dec 01 16:09:13 <Dan> Tell me about it!
Dec 01 16:09:35 <Hippy> When you hear that Larry gets stuck it puts everything into perspective
Dec 01 16:09:41 <Lensman> What's /Bowl of Heaven/ about, eh? Anybody? ...Bueller?
Dec 01 16:09:51 <Dan> I *still* haven't sold anything. But I can't quit writing.
Dec 01 16:09:54 <NickE> Wok World that was
Dec 01 16:10:03 <NickE> Halfa Dyson Sphere
Dec 01 16:10:27 <Hippy> Half a Dyson Shell
Dec 01 16:10:32 <Lensman> I've only written one story I think was worth selling, and it was set in Zelazny's /Amber/ series, so can't be sold. :(
Dec 01 16:10:35 <Larry> "Bowl of Heaven": big structure and wild history dreamed up by Greg Benford.
Dec 01 16:11:01 <NickE> Neat
Dec 01 16:11:04 <Lensman> I take it that BoH would be a stand-alone, then?
Dec 01 16:11:08 <Hippy> How darkly geometric of him
Dec 01 16:11:13 <NickE> sounds fun
Dec 01 16:11:19 <Lensman> LOL Hippy
Dec 01 16:11:22 <NickE> heh
Dec 01 16:12:25 <Larry> Greg came to me. We started it together. We're part finished, and stalled.
Dec 01 16:12:27 <Lensman> Oh, I remember references to "Wok World". I didn't realize that was from a Niven work-in-progress.
Dec 01 16:14:01 <Hippy> If you spin the wok for centrifugal g
Dec 01 16:14:16 <Hippy> 'gravity' you would get some interesting gravitational effects
Dec 01 16:14:22 <Dan> Everything would fly out the open end, wouldn't it?
Dec 01 16:15:02 <Lensman> James White did something similar in IIRC /Federation/, a Dyson shell spun for gravity, terraced, with large holes at the poles.
Dec 01 16:15:09 <Hippy> I was thinking that if you spin it along a vertical axis, the upper edges of the wok spin faster, but as you go down the curve of the wok the gravity gets lighter
Dec 01 16:15:33 <NickE> makes for interesting weather I'll bet
Dec 01 16:15:42 <Hippy> The sun is kind of in the middle of the wok, raised about 90 million miles above the bottom of the wok
Dec 01 16:15:45 <NickE> trust a Brit to bring that up
Dec 01 16:15:46 <Lensman> Tanj I really have to go. It's great chatting with y'all! Larry, be well.
Dec 01 16:15:54 * Lensman is now known as Lensman_free
Dec 01 16:15:56 <NickE> TTFN Lens
Dec 01 16:16:12 <Hippy> See ya, Lens
Dec 01 16:16:17 <NickE> gonna be getting a skype call again shortly
Dec 01 16:16:44 <Dan> I still think that the surfac tension effect would cause everything to gradually rise up to the open end and fly out if it was spinning.
Dec 01 16:16:56 <Hippy> Now, if you spin the wok along the horizontal axis you would get gravity in the 'middle' of the wok and the sun wouldn't be fixed in the sky
Dec 01 16:17:14 <chief_strike_anywhere> i can't find proper woks anymore
Dec 01 16:17:21 <Hippy> Yes, but that might take millions of years
Dec 01 16:18:25 <Hippy> Of course, you could spin the wok on both axes but that's hard to visualise
Dec 01 16:18:53 <NickE> Hard to keep your lunch down too I would imagine :-)
Dec 01 16:19:00 <Dan> I've often wondered how small you could make a Dyson sphere and still have it be useful?
Dec 01 16:19:14 <NickE> DimpleWorlD!
Dec 01 16:19:22 <Hippy> Depends where you evolved and what your sun is like
Dec 01 16:19:43 <Larry> Spinning it on both axes would shred the beast. Yes, guys, the air would have to be confined: cells everywhere. It's not a Ringworld.
Dec 01 16:19:44 <NickE> round a neutron star could be interesting
Dec 01 16:20:01 <Hippy> Pick a really cold sun or a brown dwarf. You could do a smalll one there
Dec 01 16:20:31 <Hippy> Hmm. Bit of a gravity gradient - see, this is where we need Andy Love to work it all out
Dec 01 16:20:32 <NickE> You'd have to have a pretty exotic near cheela like biology of course, maybe
Dec 01 16:20:49 <NickE> Oh, yeah, that would complicate things
Dec 01 16:21:34 <Hippy> Let's take THE neutron star of myth and legend. How close did Beowulf Shaeffer get? I know that's been worked out
Dec 01 16:21:57 <Dan> But do you actually *need* a star in the center? I'm talking about small spheres, maybe half a million miles in diameter.
Dec 01 16:22:01 <NickE> That was on the list a while back...maybe quiite a while
Dec 01 16:22:39 <Hippy> What would be the point without a star at the centre? The purpose of the shell is to use all the available power from the star
Dec 01 16:22:53 <SeanS> i cant remember... was beowulf's neutron star and Phistpok's (i never can remember how to spell it) the same neutron star
Dec 01 16:22:55 <NickE> But, the point usually is to intercept as much of the sars output as possible. Anythging else is just a bloody big spaceship
Dec 01 16:23:04 <NickE> stars
Dec 01 16:23:07 <NickE> '
Dec 01 16:23:12 <Hippy> Without s star you could make a dyson shell the size of a tennis ball and give it to the microscopic humans in James Blish's 'Sunken Universe'
Dec 01 16:23:19 <NickE> heh
Dec 01 16:23:20 <Dan> Dunno what the point would be. Di I need a point to daydream up gadgets and gizmos?
Dec 01 16:23:26 <NickE> No :-)
Dec 01 16:23:30 <Hippy> Sean: yes, they were
Dec 01 16:23:32 <NickE> Just hkeep going
Dec 01 16:23:36 <SeanS> k
Dec 01 16:24:31 <Hippy> So the smallest practical Dyson shell would be about the size of a basketball with a light bulb inside it :)
Dec 01 16:24:50 <SeanS> i dont know how 'practical' that would be
Dec 01 16:24:59 <Hippy> Blish's humans could live on 200 feet of Christmas ribbon with a candle at the centre of it :)
Dec 01 16:25:20 <Dan> I keep seeing an inside-out planet that someone built as a ship. Dunno what it's for or why, but the visuals of the inside look great in my mind's eye.
Dec 01 16:25:44 <Hippy> Well, we might not be able to understand their reasons
Dec 01 16:26:15 <Hippy> It would make a perfect generation ship, though
Dec 01 16:26:35 <Hippy> 'The Ringworld properly belongs in a slower than light universe'
Dec 01 16:26:46 * Fred (~Fred@68.3.86.137) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 16:26:50 <Hippy> Oh, that reminds me of a favour I wanted to ask you, Larry
Dec 01 16:26:55 <Hippy> Howdy, Fred
Dec 01 16:27:04 <Dan> Oh well, I've always loved Larry's "Bigger than Worlds" essay.
Dec 01 16:27:08 <Fred> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca6sVJzqb7A
Dec 01 16:27:13 <NickE> Hi Fred
Dec 01 16:27:19 <Fred> greetings all
Dec 01 16:27:40 <Larry> Yes, Hippy. Given FTL, you don't need to squeeze everything there is out of your own sole solar system.
Dec 01 16:27:44 <Hippy> I have the 'An Hour With Larry Niven' tape from 1979. Lensman advsed that I ask your permission to make an MP3 of it that could go on Larryniven.org
Dec 01 16:27:50 <Fred> I upgraded Firefox this morning and now it won't do the chat any more :(
Dec 01 16:28:20 <Dan> Fred, grab a copy of mIRC.
Dec 01 16:28:21 <Hippy> Of course, the Pak didn't have FTL
Dec 01 16:28:32 <NickE> That would be good
Dec 01 16:28:36 <Fred> that's a nightmare. Safari worked fine though.
Dec 01 16:29:01 <Larry> Hippy: Sure, go ahead with that. But it 's all old news.
Dec 01 16:29:08 <Hippy> But they do as of 'Ringworld's Children'. Hmm
Dec 01 16:29:26 <NickE> OK in conference coall gotta run for a little
Dec 01 16:29:34 <Hippy> Thank you! Lensman will be pleased. Yes, but some of your points are worth remembering.
Dec 01 16:29:45 <Fred> that URL is a you tube video of MAN OF STEEL, WOMAN OF KLEENEX
Dec 01 16:29:59 <chief_strike_anywhere> hippy -> when you've done it, email it to me and i'll put it up!
Dec 01 16:30:03 <Hippy> For example, your excellent prediction that Star Wars would make a lot of future SF very visual
Dec 01 16:30:12 <chief_strike_anywhere> alcohol run. brb
Dec 01 16:30:44 <Hippy> No worries, Mark. It will take finding a cassette player and hoping the tape is still in good nick
Dec 01 16:30:49 <Fred> I never heard anybody pronounce it "Pet-tro-dack-tell" before :)
Dec 01 16:31:03 <SeanS> fred: to .11?
Dec 01 16:31:12 <Fred> ?
Dec 01 16:31:17 <SeanS> firefoxx update
Dec 01 16:31:27 <Fred> oh. no idea.
Dec 01 16:31:31 <Fred> lemme look
Dec 01 16:31:43 <SeanS> i noticed it wanted me to put .11 on the windows pc this morning
Dec 01 16:31:46 * senax_afk is now known as senax
Dec 01 16:31:59 <Fred> 2.0.0.11
Dec 01 16:32:01 <Fred> osx
Dec 01 16:32:25 <SeanS> i'll email euan and have him check it out
Dec 01 16:32:27 <Larry> Lunchtime. I'm out. Fare you well.
Dec 01 16:32:39 <SeanS> thanks for stopping in, Larry
Dec 01 16:32:42 <Dan> Bye, Larry!
Dec 01 16:32:42 <Fred> I swear it forced an update on me just a couple days ago
Dec 01 16:32:47 <Fred> Bye, Larry!
Dec 01 16:33:00 <Hippy> 'Bye, Larry
Dec 01 16:33:00 <SeanS> let me check it here and see if if is just osx
Dec 01 16:33:14 * Larry has quit (Quit: *g0ne*)
Dec 01 16:33:25 <Fred> it never finishes. black screen with URL, says the applet is loaded
Dec 01 16:34:14 * SeanTest (~SeanTest@204.118.75.100) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 16:34:26 <SeanTest> hmm
Dec 01 16:34:28 * Dan is still using the last Mozilla Suite for his default browser/e-mail...
Dec 01 16:34:43 <SeanTest> works here under windows firefox. but i just installed java today on this box
Dec 01 16:34:46 * EML (~EML@67.163.102.208) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 16:35:01 <EML> Anyone in today?
Dec 01 16:35:01 <Dan> Ed. you just missed Larry by seconds.
Dec 01 16:35:06 * SeanTest has quit ()
Dec 01 16:35:07 <Fred> I've got a black screen with the url
Dec 01 16:35:10 <Fred> http://www.larryniven.org/java/chat.htm?nick=Fred
Dec 01 16:35:22 <Fred> and "applet applet loaded" across the bottom
Dec 01 16:35:37 <EML> Huh. What did Larry have to say?
Dec 01 16:35:54 <SeanS> fred, i would update java and see if that is it.
Dec 01 16:36:11 <Dan> He answered a few questions about works in progress and works stalled out, unfinished.
Dec 01 16:36:11 <Fred> works fine in safari
Dec 01 16:36:22 <SeanS> like i said, i installed the java plug in this morning and its splash screen is different than what i am used to seeing
Dec 01 16:36:34 <Fred> I didn't get the java splash at all
Dec 01 16:36:36 <Fred> in FF
Dec 01 16:36:38 <SeanS> hi ed
Dec 01 16:37:01 <EML> Any discussion of FLEET or JUGGLER?
Dec 01 16:37:13 <SeanS> only that some of us havent had a chance to read it yet
Dec 01 16:37:15 <EML> hi back atcha, Sean
Dec 01 16:37:17 <Fred> I'm only halfway through fleet
Dec 01 16:37:30 <Dan> I can't help, drat it! I've been using mIRC for all chat since 1995.
Dec 01 16:37:39 <Fred> I have a question that I believe I can ask without spoilers
Dec 01 16:37:48 <Fred> okay if I try?
Dec 01 16:37:52 <SeanS> fire away
Dec 01 16:38:08 <Hippy> Howdy, Ed
Dec 01 16:38:09 <Dan> No Ed, he didn't mention Fleet or Juggler.
Dec 01 16:38:30 <Fred> It's stated that the underlying tech for Earth's transfer booth network was originally licensed from General Products
Dec 01 16:38:33 <EML> askign is the easy part. answering withour spoilers may be a challenge.
Dec 01 16:38:48 <Fred> I thought transfer booths predated contact with Puppeteers
Dec 01 16:38:59 <SeanS> i thought so too... by the pelton family
Dec 01 16:38:59 <Dan> Most of the questions were either about Inferno I & II or stuff that never got finished.
Dec 01 16:39:14 <Fred> but I'm somewhat muddled with the Jerryberry stories and such that aren't really Known Space
Dec 01 16:39:27 <EML> I'm looking forward myself to Inferno II.
Dec 01 16:39:54 <NickE> hi Ed
Dec 01 16:40:19 <Hippy> I thought transfer booths predated the PP's but now that I think of it I can't say that for certain
Dec 01 16:40:22 <Dan> Something Jerry Pournelle said promped questions about how much updating Inferno I got for the new re-issue.
Dec 01 16:40:23 <Fred> Yeah, you're right, Elephants great great great etc invented the transfer booth, didn't they
Dec 01 16:40:25 <NickE> sorry, in conference call now
Dec 01 16:40:48 <Hippy> Yes, but it doesn't say when she did it, Fred
Dec 01 16:40:53 <Fred> ack
Dec 01 16:41:04 <Fred> the titles for this say "Man of Steal"
Dec 01 16:41:09 <Fred> over a picture of Larry
Dec 01 16:41:10 <Fred> :\
Dec 01 16:41:31 <Hippy> I'd always assumed they'd been around for about a century before Beowulf Shaeffer, but it doesn't actually say that
Dec 01 16:42:00 <EML> But is Pelton's g'g'g'grandma an inventor, or an entrepeneur? FLATLANDER never says.
Dec 01 16:42:26 <EML> It doesn't violate canon if she *acquires* the technology.
Dec 01 16:42:32 <Fred> sure
Dec 01 16:42:44 <SeanS> thats how i remember it, fred. beowulf was introduced to elephant who gave his name as gregory pelton. beowulf freaked at the amount of money he must have do to the invention of the transfer booth by an ancestor
Dec 01 16:42:46 <Fred> no idea if it's actually a contradiction
Dec 01 16:43:34 <Fred> seems we didn't do much for ourselves if we bought FTL and transfer booths :\
Dec 01 16:45:00 <EML> there's no evidence of underlying human science for teleporation, and no record of the human system improving. both facts argue for purchased technology.
Dec 01 16:45:43 <Hippy> You have a point there, Ed. Booths in 2640 but no stepping disks two hundred years later. Well argued
Dec 01 16:45:55 <EML> BTW, here's also more about Elephant in JUGGLER.
Dec 01 16:46:10 <Hippy> Everything is in Juggler!
Dec 01 16:46:12 <Fred> Yeah. I remember the stuff in Flash Crowd about how we developed it, bu that's not known space, right?
Dec 01 16:46:27 <Hippy> Correct, Fred
Dec 01 16:46:45 <Fred> oh, hey, EML. didn't recognize you there. :)
Dec 01 16:47:03 <Fred> my pretty hardback got rained on yesterday :(
Dec 01 16:47:10 <EML> Well, mentioning JUGGLER is a giveaway, isn't it?
Dec 01 16:47:14 * Hippy predicts the world's smallest lottery dividend as the winning numbers are in Juggler and everyone will select those numbers once the book comes out
Dec 01 16:47:27 <Dan> Grrrr! Larry stories have generated more alternate timelines than Dr Who and H. Beam Piper combined!
Dec 01 16:47:32 <EML> ROTFL
Dec 01 16:47:39 <SeanS> cant find my copy so i dont know if it says 'invent' or 'license'.
Dec 01 16:47:47 <Fred> but far less than the DC hyperverse
Dec 01 16:48:06 <Fred> I'll look it up. That's flatlander, isn't it?
Dec 01 16:48:10 <SeanS> yes
Dec 01 16:48:12 * Hippy afk briefly for another cup of tea
Dec 01 16:48:27 <SeanS> with the antimatter planet speedball or some such
Dec 01 16:48:29 <Dan> We yes, DC caused the colapse of their multiverse from the sheer weight of the alternate worlds.
Dec 01 16:49:02 <Fred> 201cO-o-oh.201d Suddenly all came clear. Gregory Pelton is known among the stars. It is rumored that he owns the thirty-light-year-wide rough sphere called human space, that he earns his income by renting it out. It is rumored that General Products2014the all-embracing puppeteer company, now defunct for lack of puppeteers2014is a front for Gregory Pelton. It's a fact that his great-to-the-eighth grandmother invented the transfer booth and that he is rich, r
Dec 01 16:49:22 <EML> FLATLANDER says "invent", but that's Bey's interior monologue. Not an assertion by anyone in the know.
Dec 01 16:49:31 <Fred> sure
Dec 01 16:50:09 <EML> Doesn't anyone wonder why someone wo rich is on a passenger liner?
Dec 01 16:50:22 <Fred> to be incognito
Dec 01 16:50:38 <Dan> Slumming for the fun of it, I thought when I read it the first time.
Dec 01 16:50:42 <Fred> he's clearly gregarious
Dec 01 16:50:50 <Fred> much more so than I would be with his money
Dec 01 16:50:54 <EML> But he's not incognito. He identifies himself. And surely a private yacht affords better privaccy.
Dec 01 16:51:07 <Fred> He doesn't identify himself
Dec 01 16:51:13 * Fred5 (~Fred@68.3.86.137) has joined #knownspace
Dec 01 16:51:30 <Fred> or does he? I'll check
Dec 01 16:51:41 <Dan> How many interesting people can a rich man surrounded by the usual crowd of yes-men get to meet. He must have been bored with that life.
Dec 01 16:51:56 <senax> Fred, what's that character before each of the numbers in your statement above?
Dec 01 16:52:01 <Fred> He just uses the name 'elephant' and gives Bey a number
Dec 01 16:52:02 <SeanS> i dont think he identifies himself till bey shows up in his apartment
Dec 01 16:52:22 <Fred> yep. Sharrol tells Bey who Elephant really is
Dec 01 16:52:26 <SeanS> and sharrol the pickpocket is there and identifies him... but that is digging deep into memory
Dec 01 16:52:33 <Dan> One of the girls is actually the character that states his real name.
Dec 01 16:52:42 <Fred> 201cSure,201d said Sharrol. 201cHis real name is Gregory Pelton.201d
Dec 01 16:53:00 <Fred> senax, what character in what statement?
Dec 01 16:53:16 <Fred> the long quote begins with quotation marks
Dec 01 16:53:24 <SeanS> wow.. memory working better than usual
Dec 01 16:53:28 <Fred> heh
Dec 01 16:53:38 <senax> You had four of them in your last statemant about Sharrol. Might be my IRC client.
Dec 01 16:53:59 <Dan> Ctrl201c is open quotes, Ctrl201d is close quotes.
Dec 01 16:54:02 <Fred> yeah, all quotation marks
Dec 01 16:54:11 <senax> I think they're some Unicode thing that this client doesn't understand, so it's showing the code numbers
Dec 01 16:54:15 <Hippy> I'm getting hex codes for the characters here
Dec 01 16:54:17 <SeanS> high ascii
Dec 01 16:54:26 <EML> My larger point (/tease) is that this story -- all the Beowulf stories -- leaves much to be interpreted about who does what, and why, and how they happened to show up. Lots of coincidences ... unless there is an underlying story yet to be revealed ...
Dec 01 16:54:32 <senax> Well, time to stop using this client then!
Dec 01 16:54:34 <Fred> bwahahahaha
Dec 01 16:54:38 <Hippy> Yes, that's what I'm getting, senax
Dec 01 16:55:03 <Dan> Fortunately, I keep my codes numbered for just such an emergency. LOL!
Dec 01 16:55:05 <EML> Moi? Bwhahah? Nah!
Dec 01 16:55:11 <Fred> senax, hippy, try pasting quote marks yourself and see what happens?
Dec 01 16:55:28 <Hippy> Stand by
Dec 01 16:55:30 <SeanS> true, Ed. I really need to go on and get a copy of fleet. kinda close to christmas to buy stuff for myself tho
Dec 01 16:55:58 <senax> This "IRCclient" is actually Gaim. I don't think IRC was a priority for the authors.
Dec 01 16:56:12 <Hippy> "I just like the elegance of updating word counts in the master document, numbering the fields for chapter headings properly, doing exotic things with the page numbering, indeed doing anything other than writing the actual text."
Dec 01 16:56:14 <senax> The quotes look OK in my line...to me.
Dec 01 16:56:18 <Hippy> No codes there
Dec 01 16:56:22 <Fred> and work here
On to part 2