Chat Log - Sat Oct 07 00:00:00 2006

[00:01] <Harry_Redd> You will also be getting hi Fructos corn syrup in some of those. also artifical coloring agents. Those are not good over long terms.
[00:01] <Harry_Redd> Tea is more traditional. :-)
[00:02] <FlyingDragon> I have found that tea is a gentle caffeinne aide, although I do my coffee in the mornings.
[00:02] <FlyingDragon> I have to get up at 5:30!!!!
[00:03] <Harry_Redd> COFFEE!
[00:04] <FlyingDragon> :-)
[00:04] <FlyingDragon> I haven't seen my espresso machine since the fire. I can't imagine I threw it away, just because it might stink.
[00:05] <Harry_Redd> There are relativly inexpensive ones at Wal-Mart.
[00:05] <FlyingDragon> Yeah, but THAT one was a wedding present from Larry Niven.
[00:08] <Harry_Redd> S*I*G*H You should have kept it, put a plaque on it and put it on a shelf.
[00:09] <FlyingDragon> I can't imagine that I would throw it away, but I havne't seen it.
[00:09] <FlyingDragon> I'm hoping it is in one of the boxes I haven't opened, mislabled.
[00:12] <Harry_Redd> The update on peggy is on the way.
[00:12] <FlyingDragon> Okay.
[00:13] <FlyingDragon> I guess I"ll read it tomorrow evening. I"m ready to chase everyone out of my bedroom so I can sleep.
[00:13] <FlyingDragon> 5:30 comes early.
[00:15] <Harry_Redd> Good Idea. I'll be up early too. 10 AM.
[00:16] <FlyingDragon> Wow. WIsh _I_ could sleep that late!!!!
[00:19] <FlyingDragon> g'night
[00:19] * FlyingDragon is now known as Flying_away
[00:20] * Harry_Redd changes topic to 'Welcome to #knownspace!!! First Saturday chat T -1 day'
[00:27] * Harry_Redd has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[10:06] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[11:20] * Fred has joined #knownspace
[11:20] <Fred> just testing
[11:21] <Fred>now testing colors
[11:22] * Lensman has joined #knownspace
[11:22] <Fred>Howdy Lensman
[11:22] <Lensman> Hi Fred!
[11:26] * uberchorn has joined #knownspace
[11:26] * uberchorn waves
[11:26] <Fred>hey ubi
[11:27] <uberchorn> I'm new to ln-l
[11:27] <uberchorn> but i'm a long time irc geek
[11:27] <Fred>we all were at one point or another :)
[11:28] <uberchorn> would anyone care to write my midterm for me?
[11:28] <Fred>it's been decades since I was in school, and I still wake up some mornings in a cold sweat trying to remember if I finished my homework
[11:29] <Fred>so, in a word: "no"
[11:29] <Fred>:)
[11:29] <uberchorn> hehe
[11:29] <uberchorn> I'm a new adjunct professor
[11:29] <uberchorn> so I'm really pulling all of this teacher stuff out of my rear
[11:31] <Lensman> Just remember those old pharts in your department at one time had to do it for the first time, too.
[11:32] <Lensman> And no, I'm not volunteering to do your homework either. Unless your homework is a treatise on Known Space chronology, in which case I've already done it. :)
[11:33] <uberchorn> :)
[11:33] <uberchorn> as adjunct, you are pretty much walking scum on campus
[11:34] <uberchorn> "how dare you say you've got a real job and this is for fun?"
[11:35] <Lensman> Oh! I have a good "subject line" for today's chat: "The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action"
[11:36] <Lensman> Oh, so "adjunct" means part-time?
[11:36] <uberchorn> What about "unnatural selection" ?
[11:36] <Lensman> Can anyone change the subject line, or only Sean?
[11:37] <Lensman> Fred?
[11:38] <uberchorn> adjunct means you're probably not a phd (i certainly am not) and that you are probably only teaching one class
[11:38] <uberchorn> #knownspace is +nr
[11:38] <uberchorn> if it was +t as well, we could not change the topic
[11:39] <Lensman> I have no idea what that means.
[11:39] <uberchorn> irc channels have specific "modes" which set the behavior of the channel in relation to the people on the chat server
[11:39] <uberchorn> it's not at all interesting :)
[11:40] <Lensman> I've seen the subject line changed here, I just don't know how to do it, and I'm not sure who can do it. Maybe only the guy who has moderator control.
[11:41] <uberchorn> oh
[11:41] <uberchorn> try /topic This is my new topic
[11:41] <uberchorn> the modes on the channel say anyone can change the topic
[11:42] <uberchorn> of course we appear to be on some sort of wonky windows irc server
[11:43] <uberchorn> I was really tempted to post some ascii porn to the list
[11:43] <uberchorn> but I resisted.
[11:45] <Lensman> Oh thanx... AFTER I looked at a looong list of mIRC commands, I come back here and discover you've told me how to do it.
[11:45] <uberchorn> sorry :)
[11:46] <Lensman> Not communicating... really, thanx. I should have waited.
[11:47] <uberchorn> have you read Building Harlequin's Moon?
[11:47] <Lensman> Yes.
[11:47] <uberchorn> I'm 75% through, so far so good
[11:47] <Lensman> You like it?
[11:47] <uberchorn> I reserve judgement until the end...
[11:47] <uberchorn> I really have to hate a book to not finish
[11:48] <uberchorn> The premise takes a certain amount of suspension of disbelief
[11:48] <Lensman> Oh, you said "so far so good" I thought you liked it. As for me... well, let's just say I'm certain I'll never read it again, and if I weren't a Niven "completist" I'd get rid of my copy.
[11:49] <Lensman> LOL! I like the way you so carefully phrased that.
[11:49] <Fred>I don't even SEE the subject line
[11:49] <Fred>no idea how I'd change it
[11:49] <uberchorn> /topic Space Hookers: WELCOME
[11:50] <Lensman> Are you using IRC Fred? If so, it appears the first thing when you join the chat.
[11:50] <Fred>no, I browsered in
[11:50] <uberchorn> This Niven completist approach. I like it in theory, in practice it's not so easy.
[11:50] <Fred>ah - "Welcome to Knownspace!!!'
[11:50] <Lensman> No kidding! There's a lot of uncollected Niven stuff.
[11:50] <uberchorn> Type just "/topic"
[11:50] <Fred>didn't realize that was the topic, thought it was a general greeting
[11:51] <uberchorn> also try "/who *"
[11:51] <Lensman> That *is* a generic greeting. Ususally it has something to do with recent list discussion. Which is why I changed it to:
[11:52] <Lensman> "The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action". But Uber didn't like my semi-serious approach and changed it to sommat silly.
[11:55] <Lensman> As I said on the list, I couldn't get past the Earthborn stubbornly refusing to use nanotech or A.I. to quickly solve the main problem, yet they were willing to use them *repeatedly* in support of the very long-term, difficult approach they *did* take to solving the problem. Also, as one reviewer noted, it's difficult to believe they'd use their own children like disposable tools and abandon them when they left.
[11:56] <Lensman> The only way I could rationalize it is to say these people are totally insane. Seriously insane. Which means I couldn't really identify with them, at all.
[11:56] <uberchorn> Not even a little? ;)
[11:56] <Lensman> :)
[11:57] <uberchorn> "We really really hate all this technology at Earth, so we've decided to go cook up our own slave world."
[11:59] <Lensman> There were more minor annoyances. Like smashing to small moons together to create a larger moon, yet they were smashed together at such velocity most of the mass was lost. Why, oh why? They have plenty of energy, why not nudge them gently together? Repeat until the mass is sufficient to collapse the aggregate into a sphere, then start building. But NOOOOOO, they took-- what was it-- 60,000 years to do it!
[12:01] <Lensman> I'm truly astounded this book hasn't gotten absolutely scathing reviews. And I know it's not just me-- others on the list have also mentioned the, um, problem with willing suspension of disbelief, and at least one said they were unable to finish it.
[12:03] <Lensman> But okay, now that I've gotten that off my chest-- what are YOUR thoughts on BHM?
[12:03] <uberchorn> hrm
[12:04] <uberchorn> I think this would all make more sense if the 3 spaceships they left Earth with
[12:05] <uberchorn> were actually part of Douglas Adams' world
[12:05] <Fred>BHM is on my Amazon wish list. Sounds like maybe I should lower it's priority rating :D
[12:05] <uberchorn> IIRC, they stumble on the world where all of the lawyers, hairdressers and middle managers have been sent on ahead to colonize the new planet
[12:06] <uberchorn> when in fact they were just tricked into leaving the planet
[12:06] <Lensman> LOL! Ah, why didn't *I* think of that? Why yes, if it's in the Hitchhiker's Guide univere it's *much* easier to swallow!
[12:07] <uberchorn> If the High Council in BHM are known idiots, then yes everything falls into place
[12:08] <uberchorn> I thought the cryo tech was very interesting
[12:08] <uberchorn> You are freeze/killed, then nano "fixes" all the problems when you are thawed.
[12:09] <SeanS> greetings fellas
[12:09] <Lensman> Hi Sean!
[12:09] <Fred>Sean
[12:09] * SeanS is now known as SeanLog
[12:09] <Fred>Log
[12:09] <SeanLog> I am going to come in later from a friends house and needed to change my nick
[12:10] <Lensman> So you just nicked in for a quick change, eh?
[12:10] <SeanLog> pretty much
[12:11] <Lensman> Uber: Yah there certainly was some interesting tech and some interesting ideas in the book. Which made it doubly frustrating for this reader. Grand concept, execrable execution. *Sigh*
[12:12] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...
[12:13] <Lensman> Well I still have one story to read in _Scatterbrain_, the one Niven wrote with Cooper. After reading BHM, I'm not exactly champing at the bit... hopefully that short story will be better.
[12:13] * SeanLog changes topic to 'Welcome to #knownspace!!! The Larry Niven chat channel.'
[12:14] <Lensman> Hmmm... I didn't get that message when *I* changed the subject!
[12:14] <Lensman> So you didn't like my subject, eh?
[12:14] <SeanLog> i think anybody can change it. let me check
[12:14] * Retrieving #knownspace modes...
[12:14] <SeanLog> yeah, anybody can set the topic
[12:14] <Fred>what was the command?
[12:15] <Lensman> Maybe it doesn't show up for the person who changes it.
[12:15] <SeanLog> i use mirc and just right click in the channel and select channel modes
[12:15] <SeanLog> the actual / command i dont know
[12:16] <Lensman> The list of commands I found said "/topic"
[12:16] <Lensman> Which is what Uber said, too.
[12:16] <Fred>slash topic doesn't work here
[12:16] * SeanLog changes topic to 'testing'
[12:17] <Fred>it returns "insufficient parameters"
[12:17] <SeanLog> the command is /topic #knownspace topic
[12:17] <Lensman> Sean: My suggestion for topic is "The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action"
[12:17] <Fred>"/topic test"
[12:17] <Fred>no idea what the trick is
[12:17] <Lensman> Altho at the moment it's "Deconstructing Harlequin's Moon" :)
[12:17] <SeanLog> the command is /topic #knownspace topic
[12:18] * Fred changes topic to 'fred's shiny topic'
[12:18] <Fred>aha!
[12:18] * Fred changes topic to 'Waiting for Larry'
[12:18] <Lensman> Topic: "Niven Chat: The topic wars!"
[12:18] <Lensman> :)
[12:19] <Fred>we need macros that insert slashtopic at the start of every post
[12:19] <Fred>or, maybe we don't :)
[12:19] <SeanLog> feel free
[12:20] <Fred>oddly, I can slide the topic line text left and right with the mouse
[12:20] <Fred>I have no idea why anybody would build a feature like that
[12:20] <Lensman> Stupid chatroom tricks!
[12:21] <uberchorn> that'd be interesting
[12:21] * Fred changes topic to 'Welcome to #knownspace!!! The Larry Niven chat channel.'
[12:22] <uberchorn> to write a little script that just watches the discussion list, and every time it sees a new subject thread, it updates the topic here with it
[12:22] <uberchorn> I guarantee it'd upset people
[12:22] <uberchorn> it's still a neat idea :)
[12:22] <SeanLog> reckon we ought to have an op till i get back. who wants it
[12:22] <Fred>knot eye
[12:23] <Fred>gonna run errands and come back in a couple hours myself
[12:23] <SeanLog> in 4 years, i have only seen an op needed one time actually
[12:24] <SeanLog> some young kid beinga young kid
[12:24] <Fred>well, we'll just see if we can top that record today, Fred muttered darkly
[12:24] <SeanLog> oh shit
[12:24] <Fred>and hopefully humourously
[12:25] <SeanLog> that would suit your style
[12:25] <Fred>the 'change nick' box doesn't seem to do anything
[12:25] <Fred>I can enter text into it, but it has no affect
[12:25] * Fred is now known as Fred2
[12:25] <Fred2> 04ah
[12:26] <Fred2> 04no spaces allowed
[12:26] <Fred2> 04or hyphens
[12:26] <Fred2> 04or underscores
[12:26] * Fred2 is now known as F
[12:27] <SeanLog> any questions about the java client should be directed to euan who shows up here as growler
[12:27] <F> 04or perhaps it only accepts nick changes at random
[12:27] * F is now known as Fred
[12:28] <Fred>slashnick works though
[12:29] * Fred is now known as Fred2
[12:29] <Lensman> Euan = Growler. I need to start a scorecard! Seriously.
[12:29] <Fred2> 04yeah, it's tough here
[12:30] <Fred2> 04I don't associate these names with the list names at all
[12:30] <SeanLog> well, i run the irc server, euan handles the chat client and a lot of web programming as does the main web guy mark firestone
[12:30] * Fred2 is now known as Fred [12:30] <Fred>ahah!
[12:30] <Fred>it won't let me change my nick 2 lines running
[12:30] <Fred>I have to post inbetween
[12:30] <SeanLog> its a 60 second nickserv delay
[12:30] <Fred>gotcha
[12:30] <Fred>which gives the appearance of random acceptance :)
[12:31] <SeanLog> on a client like mirc, nickserv will notify you that you have to wait. dont know how it appears on the java client
[12:32] <Fred>no notification at all. sometimes the nick takes, sometimes the text just vanishes
[12:43] * Fred is now known as Fred-afk
[13:02] * CatPasswd has joined #knownspace
[13:22] <Fred-afk> 04meow
[13:22] <Lensman> Hi Cat!
[13:22] <CatPasswd> lo
[13:24] <CatPasswd> I've been getting a kick out of the KaCSFFS Space Opera.
[13:24] <CatPasswd> Thanks for posting it
[13:47] <Lensman> Oh! Egoboo! Well I'll have to continue posting more parts-- there are five altogether.
[13:52] <CatPasswd> :)
[14:11] * senax has joined #knownspace
[14:11] <senax> Hello!
[14:15] * Sean- has joined #knownspace
[14:15] <senax> Hi Sean
[14:17] <senax> Is there anybody out there?
[14:20] <CatPasswd> Nobody here but us chickens
[14:22] <senax> I was starting to wonder if something was wrong with my IRC connection
[14:22] <senax> I was on for almost 10 minutes and nobody said a word
[14:25] <CatPasswd> I'm multitasking, and am low on free cpu cycles
[14:26] <CatPasswd> I don't think the chat is supposed to officially start for another hour or two
[14:27] <senax> I see...usually I join it a couple hours later, and I usually get the impression I've missed a large part of it.
[14:28] <senax> I think LN is supposed to show up around 1pm PDT; I guess that's in about an hour and a half...
[14:30] <CatPasswd> If he pops in, that's about the time he usually shows
[14:31] <Sean-> howdy all. i will be in and out
[14:33] <senax> That's what I meant...I think Frank G. mentioned it on the list last week.
[14:34] <senax> I've run across LN here a couple of times, but only overlapped by a few minutes. I'm hoping he'll be here today.
[14:37] <senax> Well..I've got a bit of shopping to do...I'll stop back in an hour or two if I can. Bye!
[14:37] * senax has left #knownspace
[14:38] * Halifax has joined #knownspace
[14:38] * Halifax is now known as Pouncer
[14:43] * Pouncer is now known as Paul
[14:47] <CatPasswd> http://www.cnn.com/interactive/space/0610/gallery.mars.images/gal.02.nasa.jpg
[14:48] <CatPasswd> Guess the martians are football fans
[14:54] <Lensman> Sorry I was multitasking too... answering email on the LN list!
[14:54] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace
[14:54] <Harry_Redd> HI All.
[14:55] <Lensman> Isn't the official start time noon PST? That's in just 8 minutes or so.
[14:55] <Lensman> Hi Harry!
[14:55] * Lensman changes topic to 'The Man-Kzin Wars: Think of it as evolution in action!'
[14:56] <Harry_Redd> You should \know better than that Lensman. This is FANDOM! Nothing ever starts on time :-]
[14:56] <Lensman> LOL! Yah "It's running on fan time" is an oft-used phrase.
[14:57] <Lensman> Hey, we have a MKW author in here! Is that a first for the Niven chat?
[14:57] <Harry_Redd> Kinda.
[14:57] * Paul laughs
[14:58] <Harry_Redd> How goes it Paul?
[14:58] <Lensman> Which volume is "Destiny's Forge" in?
[14:58] <Paul> I think Larry probably counts as an MKW author.
[14:58] <Paul> Destiny's Forge is it's own volume.
[14:58] <Harry_Redd> Beat me to it Paul.
[14:58] <Lensman> Okay... OTHER than Larry. :)
[14:58] <Paul> And it's going we'll thanks!
[14:58] <Harry_Redd> Glad to hear it.
[14:58] * Paul laughs
[14:59] <Lensman> Oh, is this forthcoming then?
[14:59] <Paul> Oh, it's in bookstores now.
[14:59] <Paul> Launched on the 4th of July.
[15:00] <Lensman> <Lensman proves to all he's clueless!>
[15:00] <Harry_Redd> I'll have to look it up then.
[15:00] <Paul> LOL!
[15:00] <Paul> Well, the trouble is - it IS its own volume.
[15:00] <Paul> All the other MKW books are filed under "Larry Niven"
[15:00] <Paul> So you might not think to look under "Paul Chafe"
[15:01] <Lensman> Mmmm... well, no. You shoulda had a short story added in and then had "Edited by Larry Niven" on the cover. I know there's at least one volume # like that.
[15:01] <Paul> Well, it says "created by Larry Niven" on the cover.
[15:02] <Paul> The biggest thing is that of course Larry is far more famous than I am.
[15:02] <Paul> So at a lot of places you have to order it in.
[15:02] <Harry_Redd> I have connections at 2 local book stores. I'll alert them to putting FORGE with the rest of the MKW stuff, if that's alright with you Paul.
[15:03] <Paul> Of course! Please do!
[15:03] <Harry_Redd> The rest of you please take note.
[15:03] <Lensman> Yah, Vol VI has a fairly long novel _The Heroic Myth of Lieutenant Nora Argamentine_, plus a fairly short story "The Trojan Cat".
[15:04] <Lensman> How many stand-alone MKW novels are there?
[15:04] <Paul> Destiny's Forge and the Children's Hour
[15:05] <Paul> I think that's all.
[15:05] <Lensman> "The Children's Hour" was in Vol II. Was it expanded into a longer story?
[15:06] <Paul> I think there was a sequel in Vol 3 or 4, and then it got turned into a novel.
[15:06] <Lensman> Ok, thanx.
[15:07] <Lensman> So, any WorldCon stories?
[15:07] <Paul> LOL!
[15:08] <Paul> Well, I can tell one if you like...
[15:08] <Lensman> I like.
[15:08] <Harry_Redd> Me too.
[15:08] * Sean- is now known as SeanS
[15:08] <Paul> OK...
[15:08] <Lensman> WB Sean
[15:08] * SeanS has left #knownspace
[15:08] * SeanS has joined #knownspace
[15:08] * SeanS sets mode: +q SeanS
[15:09] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd
[15:09] <Paul> Well, to promote DF, Baen had done up a bunch of lovely temporary tattoos.
[15:09] <Lensman> Wow, and Larry accused ME of being a mayfly in here once!
[15:09] <Harry_Redd> Hi Sean. When I tried to log in, I keept getting a message saying "Number of connections Exceeded"
[15:10] <Lensman> That's the first time I've ever heard of anyone being *too* well-connected, Harry! <g>
[15:10] <Harry_Redd> Now now Lensman. Sean has been hiding in the closet... With the server box!
[15:10] <Paul> And so - we did up at the Baen party the "Jungle Room", with copies of the book and these really cute stuffed tigers done up as Kzinti
[15:11] <Lensman> Oh! Oh! I feel an ObNiven coming on...
[15:11] <Paul> So anyway, the tattoos were a hot item..
[15:11] <Paul> How hot I didn't know until I saw some very lovely girls wearing them on their cleavage.
[15:12] <Lensman> Got it!
[15:12] <Lensman> The puppeteer unrolled completely. "Did I hear you call me cute?" "Yeah." She looked up at the orange wall of Speaker-To-Aninials and, "You too," she said generously. "I do not mean to give offense," said the kzin. "But do not ever say that again. Ever." Teela looked puzzled.
[15:12] <uberchorn> Did someone say cleavage?
[15:12] * Paul looks up
[15:12] <Lensman> Oh sorry... thought you were finished Paul.
[15:12] <Paul> Cleavage
[15:12] <Paul> Not at all!
[15:12] <CatPasswd> Looks like someone's having problems connecting to the IRC server
[15:13] <Harry_Redd> Hi Cat.
[15:13] * uberchorn makes a check on to the good chat checklist
[15:13] <uberchorn> s/to //
[15:14] <Paul> Well, the final part is that somewhere out there is a picture of me between these two fangirls with catspaw Destiny's Forge tattoos on their breasts.
[15:14] <Paul> So you simply can't buy advertising like that.
[15:14] <Harry_Redd> G*R*E*A*T Paul.
[15:14] <Lensman> LOL! Nope.
[15:14] <Paul> Or rather - you can, but it's not usually legal to...
[15:15] <Paul> Plus the guy who'd shaved his head to be Ming the Merciless wore his on his forehead - classic!
[15:16] <SeanS> will run to the house and check on the connection issue
[15:17] <Harry_Redd> tHANKS sEAN.
[15:17] <Paul> There, that's my worldcon story.
[15:17] <Harry_Redd> Current local users: 10 Max: 10
[15:17] <Harry_Redd> Current global users: 10 Max: 10
[15:17] <CatPasswd> yeah
[15:17] <CatPasswd> looks like this is all that's going to be able to get in
[15:17] <Lensman> Well that's a problem alright.
[15:18] <Lensman> Sean could at least kick Flying_away off, and remove one of his two IDs
[15:19] * Flying_away was kicked by Harry_Redd
[15:19] <Lensman> Oh! Harry has THE POWER! <g>
[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Sean needs one to Log the chat and one to chat with. Anyway, It's his Server, so he can do what he wants with it.
[15:20] <CatPasswd> Well, that gets him out of the channel, but he's still connected to the server. Have to do a /kill
[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Yupper. THE LIGHTENING IS IN MY HANDS!
[15:21] <Lensman> Well it looks like my hopes to ask Larry some questions to settle points for my Chronology will be dashed. Larry won't be able to get in if he tries, looks like.
[15:22] <Paul> You could always just email...
[15:22] <Lensman> Yah, altho I dunno how often Larry looks at "unsolicited" e-mail.
[15:23] <Paul> Well - more than he looks at unsent mail, I'll wager...
[15:23] <Lensman> :)
[15:24] <Paul> But to be sure, I sent my first story by snailmail unsolicited and had an answer back (snailmail) in under 2 weeks.
[15:24] <uberchorn> if need be, we can fall back on irc://chorn.com/knownspace
[15:24] <uberchorn> that won't have any user/speed issues
[15:25] <Lensman> I was thinking maybe we should move to another chat room, I've got one too that we can use, but how will those coming here know where to go?
[15:25] <uberchorn> the topic
[15:25] <CatPasswd> irc.tonster.com
[15:25] <Lensman> Yah, I was thinking that too.
[15:25] <CatPasswd> small irc network run by some of my co-workers
[15:25] <CatPasswd> then just /join #knownspace
[15:25] <CatPasswd> :)
[15:26] <Paul> Leave the server up with a title that says "go to irc:where-ever.com"
[15:26] <Lensman> If Sean can't get it fixed then I suggest we do just that.
[15:27] <CatPasswd> If they can't get in here, they won't be able to read the channel subject. :)
[15:27] <uberchorn> back in the day, i used to host for scads of Farscapers
[15:27] <Lensman> Well I'm assuming if we all leave then someone else can get in here long enuff to read the subject line, at least. No?
[15:28] * uberchorn nods
[15:28] <Lensman> The collective noun for Farscape fans is "scads"?
[15:28] <Lensman> "A scads of Farscapers"
[15:28] <Harry_Redd> Good idea
[15:29] <Lensman> Okay, weak joke... YOUR turn.
[15:29] <uberchorn> ok ok, a drenload :)
[15:29] <Harry_Redd> Might I suggest, for FARSCAPE Fans the term MEAT?
[15:30] <Lensman> A smegful of Red Dwarfers!
[15:30] <Harry_Redd> If we have to Relocate there, I'll send an alert to that effect. But we'll be missing the Fen who join on the JAVA link(s).
[15:30] * SpaceCowboy has joined #knownspace
[15:30] <Harry_Redd> Hi SC.
[15:31] <SeanLog> reset max connections to 100. thanks for pointing that out frank
[15:31] <uberchorn> phew
[15:31] <CatPasswd> yay
[15:31] <Harry_Redd> So much for the contingency plans. ;-]
[15:31] <Lensman> Thank goodness! And Sean too!
[15:31] <uberchorn> Can I perhaps suggest a topic of brief discussion?
[15:31] * seantest has joined #knownspace
[15:32] * seantest has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[15:32] <Paul> Go for it
[15:32] <uberchorn> ok!
[15:32] <Lensman> Sure
[15:32] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace
[15:32] <uberchorn> Hypothetical situation: There is intelligent life on other planets, and they have visited our planet.
[15:32] <Harry_Redd> Hi FrGeek.
[15:33] <FrGeek> Hi all, finally made it!
[15:33] <Lensman> And built the Pyramids, okay... <g>
[15:33] <uberchorn> Question: Would they refer to our planet as A) Earth B) Terra C) Sol-3 or D) The planet were you can get that awesome stuff called BACON?
[15:33] <Paul> LOL!
[15:33] <Harry_Redd> You know me Sean. It's all in making the Niven Chat work.
[15:33] <Lensman> Ah, "Dirt". According to one of the Stainless Steel Rat books, anyway.
[15:34] <uberchorn> I can work myself into a tizzy arguing for D.
[15:34] <Harry_Redd> Why would Aliens build Pyramids when they can get the Locals to do it using the BFMS method?
[15:34] <Paul> I think the answer is E) Before
[15:34] <FrGeek> They woudl call it "The place we dump our toxic waste" The stuff known to humans as tufu.
[15:34] <Lensman> Okay, I'll bite: What's BFMS?
[15:35] * oliver has joined #knownspace
[15:35] <oliver> Hi
[15:35] <Harry_Redd> When we find them Geek, We'll get even by covering the surface of their planet to the depth of 4 t with High Frcutos Corne Syrup!
[15:35] <Lensman> The floodgates have opened!
[15:35] <Harry_Redd> BFMS = Brute Force, Mass Stupidity.
[15:36] <SpaceCowboy> HI< ALL> Sorry, the page booted me three times. Hi. Harry! How're you doin?
[15:36] <Harry_Redd> Trying to cope.
[15:36] <Lensman> There were only 10 channels open, so that's why you were getting booted. Sean performed some Server Magic, so now there's room for all.
[15:37] <SpaceCowboy> Anything I can do, let me know.
[15:38] <SpaceCowboy> Thank you, Sean!
[15:38] <SpaceCowboy> It's still slower than pushing molasses uphill with a rope.
[15:39] <Lensman> SC: Are you on JavaChat?
[15:40] <Lensman> Being slow is why I switched to mIRC. Altho now that I'm using broadband that prolly isn't as important.
[15:40] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, Lens ... haven't instituted the IRC bit yet. (Hi, BTW...)
[15:40] <SpaceCowboy> Hey, it's getting better.
[15:40] <Lensman> And Hello! to all you not-so-early-comers.
[15:41] <Lensman> SC: Yah, the Java client does that. Slow for awhile then it speeds up. At least that was my usual experience.
[15:41] <Harry_Redd> Sean must be D-Loading headers again. ;-)
[15:41] * Tanada has joined #knownspace
[15:41] <Harry_Redd> Hi Tanada.
[15:42] <Lensman> Welcome Tanada
[15:42] <SpaceCowboy> brb ... caffeine beckons.
[15:42] <Tanada> Ha8il Hail Frank, how's Peggy?
[15:42] <Tanada> Hi lnes
[15:42] <Tanada> geeze Hi LENS
[15:42] <Tanada> my fingers hate me today
[15:42] <Lensman> :) Thats okay I can parse Typo! :)
[15:43] <Harry_Redd> I don't think I posted an update this morning. She responds to pain, but otherwise, no change. She was moaning a lot so now, she's under a mild sedative.
[15:43] <Lensman> "I speak jive!" (Any "Airplane!" fans here?)
[15:43] <Paul> LOL!
[15:44] <Harry_Redd> I not only Read Tlypo, I Speak it!
[15:44] <Tanada> LOL good one, but you need Mrs Cleaver to help you out
[15:44] <Paul> I don't know if I'm a fan, but I've seen it a bunch
[15:44] * Fred-afk is now known as Fred
[15:44] <FrGeek> We are thinking of her and you Frank
[15:45] <Tanada> Still got you both in our prayers Frank
[15:45] <Harry_Redd> Thanks.
[15:45] <Lensman> My best wishes, FWIW
[15:45] <Tanada> Anyone else catching Jerico? I am really enjoying it, has very much a Panic In The Year Zero feel to it
[15:45] <SeanS> not downloading headers
[15:45] <oliver> I hope she'll get better soon
[15:46] <Lensman> Jerico? No, when and what channel?
[15:46] <Harry_Redd> I will be posting a Thank You message about Peg when I can deal better with things.
[15:46] <Lensman> Battlestar Galactica finally had a (two!) new episode last nite.
[15:46] <Harry_Redd> I've caught a few Episodes.
[15:47] <Fred>sort of struck me as Hogan's Heroes in space without the funny
[15:47] <Harry_Redd> I Liked the Dr Who Episode. Good stuff that.
[15:47] <FrGeek> Lately been watching Eureka and Heroes. Oh and of course BSG
[15:47] <Fred>yes, Dr. Who was quite enjoyable
[15:47] <Fred>Eureka just got renewed
[15:48] <Harry_Redd> HEROS is GOOD! I hope the quality stays as high as whaat I've seen so far.
[15:48] <uberchorn> I think Cleopatra 2525 is still the pinnacle of TV Scifi
[15:48] <Fred>heh
[15:48] <Harry_Redd> Eureka was only suppose to be a Summer series. I'm glad to see it continue.
[15:48] <Tanada> Jerico is CBS Wednesdays at 8 PM
[15:48] <Fred>always an argument to be made for the final season of Earth Final Conflict
[15:48] <Fred>as the pinnacle
[15:49] <uberchorn> :)
[15:49] <Tanada> or you can view it online from the cbs.com/jericho link if you have a high speed connection
[15:50] <SpaceCowboy> I've heard good things about the "Star Trek Enhanced" project, but don't get TV here.
[15:50] <Fred>oh, it's horrid
[15:50] <uberchorn> I hope that Jericho travels a bit timeline wise
[15:50] <Lensman> I haven't really fully assimilated the idea of broadband yet. It never occurred to me to watch a TV episode online.
[15:50] <Tanada> TOS enhanced is on at 2 AM here and I don't have a recorder any more
[15:50] <Fred>it's in the crime against humanity category (trek enhanced)
[15:50] <uberchorn> I'm most interested in how it compares to something like Alas, Babylon or Footfall
[15:50] <FrGeek> I have no idea how EFC lasted so long. and how consistently got worse and worse. It jumpe dteh shark several times.
[15:51] <Fred>that's what tribune did to their shows
[15:51] * TreeHugr has joined #knownspace
[15:51] <Tanada> Lens its great, they take out 15 minutes of commercials but leave in about 5 for the show so it lasts 45 minutes instesad of an hour
[15:51] <Tanada> hi TH
[15:51] <uberchorn> FrGeek, there is jumping the shark, and then there is lying down and mating with the shark
[15:51] <FrGeek> LOL
[15:51] <Lensman> But if it something I *really* wanna watch, like BG, I'll go down to the family room and watch it on the home theatre system! Dolby Digital 5.1 with 5 audiophile grade speakers incl. 2 subwoofers beats the heck out of computer speakers any day! (Yah I'm bragging, and so what's your point?) :)
[15:51] <Harry_Redd> KERROKI is a Crime Against Humanit. STE couldn't possably as that!
[15:52] <Fred>Kerroki?
[15:52] <Tanada> Alas Babylon is brought up a lot on the Usenet Jericho groups but i havve never read it
[15:52] <SpaceCowboy> Karaoke? (Japanese for "Can't carry tune in bucket...")
[15:53] <Harry_Redd> Sorry. As Possably as BAD as kerrioki.
[15:53] <uberchorn> Tanada, Pat Frank - 1959 or so. You need it to round out a deeply felt sense of angst.
[15:53] <Lensman> Well I was most definitely in the "Crime against humanity" camp for the jazzed-up Classic Trek... until I actually watched an episode. It's okay, really. They haven't "jazzed up" the FX like the Star Wars Special Editions.
[15:53] <Fred>no
[15:53] <Fred>they did it worse
[15:53] <Tanada> So are Kzinti still the hot topic?
[15:54] <Harry_Redd> Kinda.
[15:54] <TreeHugr> I still haven't caught the new Trek - Saturday afternoon is a bad time for me.
[15:54] <Fred>most places it's on at 3am
[15:54] <SpaceCowboy> They *did* have to clean up and digitize the original 35mm film to make it compatible with HiDef ... this is a good thing.
[15:54] <TreeHugr> Speaking of the Kzinti . . . just finishing ADG again . . .
[15:54] <FrGeek> Is it true Trek enchanced added a Computer generated alien know it all teenager into the cast?
[15:54] <uberchorn> new Trek?
[15:54] <Fred>except the transfers are hideous
[15:55] <Paul> Cherry Trek?
[15:55] <Lensman> Actually we haven't touched the kzinti topic, despite my changing the topic thread.
[15:55] <Fred>they shifted everything into the cyan in an ill adivised attempt to make the gold shirts chartreause
[15:55] <TreeHugr> The new improved classic Trek.
[15:55] <SpaceCowboy> LOL, FrGeek! Fortunately, no. (They waited until TNG to do that...)
[15:55] <Lensman> And who is ADG when he's at home?
[15:55] <FrGeek> Oh yes, very intersting Kzinti threads on the list.
[15:56] <TreeHugr> I finally figured out what I don't like about ADG, and it's not the plot.
[15:56] <FrGeek> ADG? A Darker Geometry?
[15:56] <TreeHugr> The Kzin are not big housecats, but much of their behaviour in ADG is that of giant mutant cats.
[15:56] <Lensman> Speaking only for myself, I try not to argue in here, so I hadn't brought up the Kzinti stuff. Of course if we can discuss it without resorting to use of variable swords...
[15:57] <TreeHugr> Well, I did bring a flashlight laser.
[15:57] <TreeHugr> Just in case . . .
[15:57] <Fred>here's a page I made
[15:57] <Fred>http://homepage.mac.com/anim8rfsk/TrekEnhanced/
[15:58] <uberchorn> So Kzinti are nothing like that old CSI episode with the furry convention?
[15:58] <FrGeek> I am sure we can a calm discussion, so long as you are rational admit you are wrong ;)
[15:58] <Lensman> "A Darker Geometry"? Well I certainly don't like the Outsiders as potential Berserker clones. Ick.
[15:58] <TreeHugr> ???
[15:58] <Harry_Redd> Re: Kzin Genetics: I suspect that the Puppeteers have had Extended Life, Gene manipulation and a stable society for so long that, they don't know how long it takes to make a genetic change in a non-Puppeteer or "Wild" alien population. Thoughts?
[15:58] <Paul> Hmm - I was just putting up a post about A Darker Geometry
[15:58] <Lensman> There was other stuff I didn't like about ADG altho at the moment I don't remember what it was.
[15:59] <Paul> The puppeteers use a second species to gestate their young...
[15:59] <Fred>I remember Nessus saying that humans were almost as long lived as Puppeteers, and wondering how long lived Louis Wu era humans really are
[15:59] <FrGeek> I loathe ADG because it tried to rewrite the whole backstory to the universe- I definatly in the "breaking the playgroud equipment" categlory.
[15:59] <Fred>yes
[16:00] <TreeHugr> Most people don't seemt to like the whole history-of-the-universe bit. Gives away too much that has always been a pleasant mystery.
[16:00] <Paul> So their payoff matrixes are very different, genetically speaking.
[16:00] <Harry_Redd> I don't buy the Outsiders as being Genecidal at all. Merchants never want to Kill a market for their wears.
[16:00] <Lensman> Fred: How can I put this kindly? You seem to have some very strong opinions about Star Trek. Of course you're entitled to them, but I don't think many of us share those opinions.
[16:01] <TreeHugr> I can accept the ADG plot to a point, because Larry liked it enough to let it be published. I don't consider it canon, and neither does Larry, I believe.
[16:01] <FrGeek> Maybe they have wild puppetter DNA but I doubt they keep live samples. Seeing them actually kicking and attacking would be far too scary.
[16:01] <Fred>did Larry actually approve it before publicaton?
[16:01] <TreeHugr> I did like the various factionsof outsiders diea - some deal with warmlife, most don't.
[16:01] <Lensman> FrGeek: THANK YOU!! You have put your finger on why I hate ADG.
[16:02] <TreeHugr> I believe no MKW story gets published without Larry's okay.
[16:02] <Fred>really?
[16:02] <Lensman> That's a point I was making to Paul quite recently (today?) on the list. I do NOT think Larry considers all the MKW stories to be "canon".
[16:02] <Harry_Redd> <Paul> The puppeteers use a second species to gestate their young... I really don't see that as a reproduction stratigy for a Herd Animal. I remember that Puppeteers can be less than forthcoming with the truth.
[16:02] <Paul> Larry approves EVERYTHING that goes into the MKW
[16:02] <TreeHugr> I seem to recall him saying he'd turned down several for going too far, etc.
[16:02] <Lensman> There's a difference between Larry approving it for publication and saying it's "canon".
[16:02] <Paul> He is quite stringent.
[16:02] <Tanada> That sums up my problem with ADG as well, they are not just aliens, they are hyper powerful aliens who toy with warmlife for amusement only
[16:03] <FrGeek> Remeber heard animals foret intermigle a herd of another species
[16:04] <oliver> Is there evidence the outsiders are traders for a living or is that just a way to interact?
[16:04] <Harry_Redd> Only when there is no basis for competition Geek.
[16:04] <Paul> You can argue over whether a particular story is "canon" or not, but NOTHING goes out without his detailed review, and if he doesn't like something, it just doesn't go in. Period.
[16:04] <Tanada> Herd animals often intermingle around water holes and such, but tend not to stay mixed when under attack
[16:04] <TreeHugr> I believe Larry has said something like, they're canon unless he needs them not to be, to write his own story.
[16:04] <Lensman> I don't see any problem with herd animals developing a symbiotic relationship with another species. There are a LOT of symbiotic relationships in Earth's ecosystem, some quite strange and wonderful.
[16:04] <Paul> Well, bison and buffalo cluster around injured animals to protect them when under attack...
[16:05] <Lensman> Yes there's evidence the Outsiders are traders. Look at the very tail end of _A Gift from Earth_.
[16:05] <Tanada> Personally I want the protozoan symbiot from AGFE
[16:05] <FrGeek> Harry true, but I picture the "females" as a large treetop top grazer, and puppeters as grass eaters.
[16:05] <Harry_Redd> I suspect Trade has become the primary contact point with Outsiders. Also that they know of many other racecs unknown to Known Space.
[16:05] <Paul> Known Space is really just a tiny little dot in the galaxy.
[16:06] <Harry_Redd> FrGeek, I pucture them as Puppeteers that we don't recognize as Female when we see them. :-)
[16:06] <Tanada> The Outsiders are interesting because their primary goal is to seek ever more knowledge, and with hyperwave what one Outsider trader knows they can all access at will or need.
[16:07] <Fred>how do we know that's their goal?
[16:07] <Tanada> I think LN would do us all a service if her reset to the first MK war and erased the hyperdrive. Have the Outsiders sell gravity polarizers to WeMadeIt and give man equal footing in the MK wars.
[16:07] <Paul> LOL! Point, treeHugr
[16:07] <Harry_Redd> Yuppr. Hmm, I wonder what the Outsider price would be for knowlege of unknown races would be, and if the Puppeteers paid that price when they left?
[16:07] <Lensman> I think the Puppeteers and the Kzinti are Larry's commentary on the value of intelligence. Puppeteers seem to be smarter than Humans, Kzinti not as smart. And Thrintun not very smart at all. Puppeteers NEED to be smarter than predators; Kzinti don't NEED to be as smart 'cuz they're so fearsome.
[16:07] <Tanada> slower than light universes are more interesting to me
[16:07] <FrGeek> Ah, i see your problem, they are identical then they woudl not likely intermigle.
[16:08] <Paul> Ah well - lions are smarter than wildebeast!
[16:08] <Paul> But the primary driver of smartness - I think - is sexual selection of intelligence.
[16:09] <Tanada> Fred, Bey and Elephant traded info with the Outsiders, Bey states pretty clearly IIRC that the Outsiders are information traders foirst and foremost
[16:09] <Fred>that's their line of work
[16:09] <Fred>doesn't mean it's their goal
[16:09] <Tanada> Their goal is to follow Starseeds ;)
[16:09] <Fred>lol, yes, could well be
[16:10] <TreeHugr> There's a point - no starseeds mentioned in ADG. Why not?
[16:10] <Harry_Redd> Right on Fred. What we KNOW about any other (intelligent) species is only what they tell us. [16:10] <Fred>information trading might just be a hobby, or a way to amass the credits to afford to follow Starseeds
[16:10] <FrGeek> Maybe the outsider/starseed relation is the same as as Greatful Dead and the Deadheads?
[16:10] <Lensman> You could argue that Bey doesn't know what the heck he's talking about. But the end of AGFE seems to be told from the Outsiders' POV. They're certainly not an omnipotent race with genocidal thoughts there!
[16:10] <Tanada> Het Harry, we can also observe and draw our own conclusions LOL
[16:10] <Paul> LOL FrGeek!
[16:11] <Harry_Redd> Conclusions colored by what we have been told.
[16:11] * allyngibson has joined #knownspace
[16:11] <Fred>When I was listening to that (rather painful) Ringworld audio novel
[16:11] <FrGeek> Hi ally
[16:11] <Tanada> Agree Lens, if they were genocidal we wouldn't be around to know it. Destroying a planet for a species with their technology is no sweat
[16:12] <Tanada> Hi allyn
[16:12] <allyngibson> hey peeps :)
[16:12] <Fred>I was wondering why the Outsiders were basking with their tails in shadows
[16:12] <Fred>couldn't they accomplish the same thing by, like, wearing pants?
[16:12] <Lensman> Tan: Yah. So I respectfully disagree with Paul when he says all the MKW stories are canon just 'cuz Larry approved them for publication.
[16:12] <Paul> Indeed, destroying a planet with OUR technology isn't too hard...
[16:13] <Paul> Ah well, I don't say what's canonical - that's for Larry to say.
[16:13] <Harry_Redd> Consider this for example. The Outsiders we have met are only those in a very narrow cone with the vertex originationg at the Core. One would suspect Starseeds to be destributed throught the Galaxy. Are there Outsiders there too?
[16:13] <Lensman> Fred: It's an artistic thing, doncha know? Aesthetics forbid anything so gauche as wearing pants.
[16:13] <Paul> I just say - he very rigourously vets what's published.
[16:13] <FrGeek> Good question, but consider they bought Beys account of teh core explosion i woudl have to say no
[16:13] <Tanada> exactly, we know the technology to build a fission-fusion-fission device of any arbitrarily large size we choose. 100 GT should pasturize us pretty good
[16:14] <Fred>Frank, they wouldn't be outsiders if they didn't hang around, you know, outside :)
[16:14] <oliver> Putting the tail into the shadow possibly predates technology
[16:14] <Lensman> FrG: No, they valued Bey's account only because it was from an alien POV. They already knew about the Core explosion, they said that.
[16:14] <Paul> Even without nuclear weapons, the Hummer H2 is doing a good job of trashing the world all by itself.
[16:14] <Harry_Redd> Paul, I beg to differ. We could (maybe) destroy life on a planet, but destroy the planet? Man, a Planet is an awefull lot of Rock, and that's just the surface!
[16:14] <FrGeek> Lens good point
[16:15] <Paul> LOL! Point given - I confine my ambitions to the destruction of civilization-as-we-know-it
[16:15] <TreeHugr> The tail-in-shadow thing was to establish a temp difference between the two ends of the Outsider, wasn't it? For energy?
[16:15] <Fred>yes
[16:15] <Lensman> And yah, the Outsiders have had to have known about the Core explosion for a LONG time. In fact, _Protector_ suggests the Core explodes periodically, so the Outsiders prolly think of it as "normal". I strongly suspect they're either immune to that radiation or have excellent procection.
[16:16] <FrGeek> Yes, a bomb of about 20 Gt woudl destroy all human life, but it woudl not come close to destroying all life, much less destroy the earth
[16:16] <Fred>then why did they pay a million stars for information on the core explosion?
[16:16] <Paul> They'd have to be immune to hard cosmic radiation...
[16:16] <allyngibson> I'd think they'd be hardened against the radiation--given that the Outsiders spend -all- their time bathed in hard radiation :)
[16:16] <Paul> So what's the core explosion but a lot of hard cosmic rays?
[16:17] <oliver> they learned about how the PP use quantum II
[16:17] <Paul> Well - the outsiders don't use hyperdrive - maybe they don't use hyperwave either.
[16:17] <Lensman> I don't think we have the tech to destroy earth, no. Not even to disrupt one of the large techtonic plates, let alone the whole planet. A hurricane dwarfs the energy output of our largest nukes.
[16:17] <FrGeek> And planton put out more CO2 than all teh cars combines, so maybe we can blame teh planton for armageddon... hey maybe taht their plan- decendances of the Green Maurader.
[16:18] <Paul> Uhhhm - don't plankton take up CO2? As part of photosynthesis?
[16:18] <Paul> Phytoplankton of course...
[16:18] <Lensman> Fred: Re Outsiders/ Core/ Bey: Go back and read "Flatlander" again! It's made very clear why they pay him.
[16:18] <FrGeek> ALLY But they are out near neptune or teh oort cloud radiation is much lowere there.
[16:19] <Fred>I read Flatlander a few days ago.
[16:19] <Fred>Why, if they consider the core explosion normal, and are immune to it, would they pay for information about it?
[16:19] <FrGeek> Paul not all plankton, besides at night they have to do soemthing. Its either make CO2 or follow teh grateful dead ;)
[16:19] <Tanada> zooplankton put out CO2, phytoplanton absorb it
[16:20] <Lensman> I suspect they can use both hyperwave and hyperdrive when they *need* too. They don't use hyperdrive usually 'cuz it's "vulgar". That's a quote.
[16:20] <Lensman> I thought plankton were tiny animals, not plants?
[16:20] <FrGeek> They also have something "far better than hyperdrive" also a quote
[16:20] <Harry_Redd> A much more "dangerous" greenhouse gas is Water Vapor. Trees, grass ect put out much more than Petro Vehicles do. And if we go to H2 Even MORE Water Vapor will be emmitted. So much for the "Green Solution.
[16:21] <allyngibson> FrGeek--it's "Allyn" -not- "Ally" ;)
[16:21] <Paul> Phytoplankton are plants, zooplankton are animals...
[16:21] <Harry_Redd> Plankton is actually both.
[16:21] <Tanada> Lens, thats because we went from thinking bigger is better to more accurate is better. The USSR Tsar Bomba had an expected yield of 150-175 MT of force, the average nowadays is 150 KT
[16:21] <Lensman> Fred: Then you should remember! :) And I already answered why-- scroll up.
[16:21] <Paul> But I'm reasonably sure that phytoplankton are in fact the single largest CO2 fixing biomass on earth.
[16:21] <Fred>yawn
[16:21] <FrGeek> Sorry Allyn. You have permission to misspell my name to make it even. ;)
[16:22] <FrGeek> (Thought it was Ally N Gibson sorry)
[16:22] <Harry_Redd> Truly Paul.
[16:22] <allyngibson> no worries, mate :)
[16:22] <Lensman> FrG: Oh, where's the "much better than hyperdrive" reference, please? please??
[16:23] <oliver> plancton with respect to CO2 is neutral except for the carbonate shells sinking to the bottom or oceans under anoxic conditions
[16:23] <Paul> But anyway, the Outsiders could certainly mess up the planet itself and not just the ecosystem.
[16:23] <Tanada> Frgreek but they travel intersteller space at .8 LS, thats as hard a radiation as you could want
[16:23] <Harry_Redd> Communication via Electron Entanglement perhaps?
[16:23] * bandersnatch has joined #knownspace
[16:23] <Lensman> It's true that most of the CO2 is converted to free oxygen in the ocean, not by land plants.
[16:23] <Fred>anybody with a decent drive can mess up a planet pretty good
[16:24] <oliver> They can hit a planet with an asteroid at near lightspeed
[16:24] <FrGeek> I read an interseting quot ethat the coveremnet kept the price of lithium hydroxide a secret, not becuas eit was so expensive, but becuas eit was so cheap. They did not want peopel to know that the differnce between a 10 MT bomb and a 100MT bomb was a few cents.
[16:24] <Harry_Redd> Hi Bander.
[16:24] <Fred>starship troopers 'almost' got it right
[16:24] <Paul> LOL!
[16:24] <Tanada> Fred that was my whole point, if you take a 1 ton object and impact it at .99 LS it is going to mess things up a LOT
[16:24] <Harry_Redd> Moon is a Harsh Mistress got the Yield Figures right.
[16:25] <Fred>right tanada
[16:25] <FrGeek> Lenman you would ask. I don't remeber.
[16:25] <Fred>of course starship troopers were tossing rocks at thousands of times lightspeed
[16:25] <Fred>you'd think a rock going that fast would be 'very bad' for you
[16:25] <Fred>:)
[16:25] <Tanada> True Lens, the ocea 'green zone' is over 100 feet deep
[16:25] <Lensman> If they could accellerate Elephant's ship up to near lightspeed in, what was it, just a few seconds? Then they could certainly send a sizable asteriod whizzing in at near lightspeed and destroy any planet. Yah. But contrary to what ADG says, I just don't believe the Outsiders are genocidal.
[16:26] <SpaceCowboy> FrG: You're talking about the material used for C)2 scrubbers in US spacecraft? I wasn't aware it had catalytic properties in nuclear detonations...
[16:26] <Harry_Redd> A Relativly small object (10 Kt mass) traveling at those speeds would most likely split this planet open.
[16:26] <Paul> Lithium deuteride is the primary fusion component of fusion bombs
[16:27] <oliver> spaceship scrubbers is LiO2
[16:27] <Tanada> Spacecowboy, LiH is fusion fuel, wrap it around a fission bomb and when the fission bomb explodes it heats and compresses the fusion fuel and irradiates it with neutrons. BOOM!
[16:27] <Paul> Neutron flux from the plutonium sparkplug assembly fission lithium into tritium, which then fuses with the deuterium.
[16:27] <SpaceCowboy> ^CO2^
[16:27] <bandersnatch> Upps, got my ear bitten by the wife, greetings!
[16:27] <bandersnatch> .
[16:28] <Harry_Redd> -k-
[16:28] <Paul> the D-T reaction liberates fast neutrons which serve to fission the U-238 bomb wrapper.
[16:28] * uberchorn boggles. I am way too used to chatting with Farscape caliber superfans.
[16:28] <Paul> ?? Is that a good thing or a bad thing??
[16:28] <Tanada> Actually paul look up Castle Bravo, it used plain old hydrogen and Lithium and yeilded 15 MT....when they were expecting 5 MT
[16:28] <uberchorn> Oh, it's a great thing.
[16:28] <SpaceCowboy> Wow, thanks all! I jes loves dis joint, so much to learn ...
[16:29] <Harry_Redd> the D-T reaction liberates fast neutrons which serve to fission the U-238 bomb wrapper. /// Provided there is any left by that time
[16:29] <Lensman> Uber: I know a guy who says literary SF clubs put the average intelligence of MENSA to shame. And he speaks from experience, having been to a few MENSA meetings.
[16:29] <TreeHugr> He's right.
[16:29] <Paul> Castle Bravo used Li-7, which was expected to be inert...
[16:29] <Fred>at least MENSA finally busted Sharon Stone
[16:30] <Paul> which boosted the yeild - but I'm pretty sure it was Li-7 Deuteride...
[16:30] <Lensman> I thought Sharon already had a pretty good bust...
[16:30] <Tanada> Frank, you can also use a fissile wrapper like U-235 or Pu-239 and boost the yeild about 55%
[16:30] <SpaceCowboy> I didn't want to spend the money for the silly yellow pin. ;)
[16:30] <Harry_Redd> My take is; if the people in MENSA were so smart, they woudn't spend so much time talking about how smart they are. ;-)
[16:30] <Paul> but - I've been wrong before!
[16:30] <FrGeek> Harry i agree totally
[16:30] <Fred>I remember being interested when Playbody did "The Women of MENSA" thinking I'd get to see hot smart women
[16:31] <Fred>and being horrified that the quotes were just as vacant as any other pictorial
[16:31] <Harry_Redd> Thanks Tanada. Not a Neuclar Weaponeer, but I know a ffew.
[16:31] <Fred>this is of course before I figured out that the quotes are all written by airhead editors anyway
[16:31] <Tanada> Castle Bravo was suppossed to be a test to see how important it was to seperate out all of the Li-7 from the Li-6 fusion fuel, they were shocked to learn that Li-7 is also a good fusion fuel
[16:31] <Lensman> Fred: I wouldn't be surprised.
[16:32] * Paul nods
[16:32] <Fred>"Fire good. Tree pretty"
[16:32] <bandersnatch> whats with the farscape fans: Do they have different vocabulary ROMS?
[16:32] <SpaceCowboy> "Turn-ons: Bikini briefs, moonlight strolls, Grand Unified Field Theory ..."
[16:32] <Tanada> lol
[16:32] <Harry_Redd> I dated a Miss April for a bit. Science Fiction Fan and she also did not have much of a posative opinion of MENSA.
[16:32] <Lensman> LOL!
[16:32] <Fred>lol, I wish
[16:32] * Paul laughs
[16:33] <FrGeek> "I like sunshine long walks on the beach, and reading satelliite downloads in binary..."
[16:33] <uberchorn> There are a lot of farscape fans who normally would watch a soap opera, but then found out that they like lasers too.
[16:33] <Paul> Geek girls rock!
[16:33] <TreeHugr>1100111001110
[16:33] <Tanada> ow TH that had to be the WORST episode of TNG
[16:33] <Fred>"name a bad epidoe of TNG"
[16:33] * Paul directs the attention of the audience to girlgenius.com
[16:33] <Fred>LOL
[16:33] <Lensman> Well of course I dunno exactly what was meant by the reference to Farscape fans. But having spent a brief time chatting on the Star Wars chatroom at AOL back in the day, it seems most media fans are young and uneducated. At least uneducated in the sciences.
[16:33] <Fred>tanada beat me
[16:34] <Harry_Redd> Most NivenListers have very broad interestests. Where as "Media" Fans are usually quite narrow and actually BELIEVE the science they see on the shows.
[16:34] <Fred>yes
[16:34] <SpaceCowboy> Actually, it was "11001001" ...
[16:34] <Fred>and 'Masks' was WAY worse
[16:34] <Lensman> Name a bad episode of TNG? That's easy, just name any episode...
[16:34] <Tanada> * groan
[16:34] <Fred>as dumb as 11001001 was
[16:34] <Paul> Nah, the one where Picard got turned into a child was good.
[16:34] <Fred>their entire problem was they didn't know any non magnetic storage options?
[16:34] <FrGeek> Worst? Classic trek- "hippies in space"
[16:35] <Fred>sell these guys a CD-Rom burner
[16:35] <Paul> And the one where Barcley got addicted to virtual-Troi on the holodeck
[16:35] <Lensman> Worst? "Skin of Evil".
[16:35] <uberchorn> Piiiiigs iiiiin Spaaaaace
[16:35] <Lensman> TNG of course.
[16:35] <Fred>nah
[16:35] <Fred>Skin gets bonus points for snuffing Yar
[16:35] <Lensman> Pigs in Space! Yah one of my very favorites.
[16:35] <Harry_Redd> Worst TNG? The one where they ripped off A.D. Foster's VOM.
[16:35] <Fred>VOM?
[16:36] <SpaceCowboy> Worst TOS: "Gamesters of Triskelion."
[16:36] <Lensman> Fred: Perhaps someday you'll explain just why you hate most Trek so very intently.
[16:36] <FrGeek> The problem i had the picard as kid episode was they discover the fountain youth and forgot agot abot it
[16:36] <Tanada> I am going down to Eden...I liked that one, Nimoy Rocked!
[16:36] <Fred>well, since that's not true, it would be tough to explain
[16:36] <Lensman> Vom is a reference to _Bloodhype_. Part of the Flinx & Pip/ Humanx Commonwealth series.
[16:36] <Fred>I love TOS. Have since the first ep. My Dad got me on the set when I was a kid
[16:36] <Harry_Redd> A Purely Black and Evil Life form that ended all the life of the portion of the Galaxy it happened to be in.
[16:37] <Fred>Deep Space Nine rocks (for the most part)
[16:37] <Harry_Redd> That was from A.D. Foster's BLOODHYPE.
[16:37] <Paul> Well, Star Trek routinely forgets about the amazing discoveries they make in each episode.
[16:37] <SpaceCowboy> DS9 went soap, and I lost interest.
[16:37] <Fred>yes, paul
[16:37] <Lensman> Oh no, Gamesters isn't the worst. "The Omega Glory" and "The Children Shall Lead" are the worst Classic Trek. Still not nearly as bad as a lot of NextGen, tho.
[16:37] * allyngibson has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
[16:37] <Fred>most of 3rd season is worse than Gamersters
[16:37] <Paul> I mean really - the can set the ship's phasers on STUN and stun everyone on the planet - wouldn't that wrap up almost every episode in about twelve minutes?
[16:37] <Fred>yeah
[16:38] <FrGeek> how can it be bad with alien babe in thigh high gogo-boot?
[16:38] <Lensman> Fred: Re DS9: Well there we agree.
[16:38] <Fred>how did Trek lose stun capablity?
[16:38] <Paul> They forgot it.
[16:38] <Harry_Redd> None of them are nearly as bad a VOYAGER or ENTERPRISE though.
[16:38] <SpaceCowboy> "Corbomite Maneuver" (TOS) and "The Inner Light" (TNG) are favorites, though.
[16:38] <bandersnatch> Is Alzheimers endemic in TNG?
[16:38] <Fred>I agree with the bell curve theory of TNG - peaks in the middle, with a lousy start and end
[16:38] <Fred>Voyager is bad from the get go
[16:38] <Tanada> Voyager gets half destroyed every episode and still looks shipyard fresh at the start of the next episode
[16:38] <Fred>yeah
[16:39] <Fred>and had an endless supply of shuttles
[16:39] * Paul laughs and laughs
[16:39] <Lensman> Well I'm not sure which is worse-- Enterprise or NextGen.
[16:39] <Fred>SpaceCowbody, Corbomite Rocks
[16:39] <Fred>Enterprise
[16:39] <TreeHugr>Enterprise. No contect.
[16:39] <Fred>yeah
[16:39] <Paul> I gave up at the beginning of DS9.
[16:39] <TreeHugr>Contest
[16:39] <Tanada> LOL, we were keeping a running count of dead crew and destroyed shuttles for a while in Voy, when we got up to 20 shuttles and 80 crew we quite
[16:39] <Lensman> Voyager at least had 7 of 9 going for it in later seasons. Before that it was frequently awful, tho.
[16:39] <Fred>Tanada, Janeway killed them all several times
[16:40] <Paul> 7 of 9?
[16:40] <Fred>and killed everybody everywhere in the finale
[16:40] <Paul> In school we called her 10 of 10.
[16:40] <Tanada> lol
[16:40] <Lensman> The Borg woman who became a Voyager crewman.
[16:40] <FrGeek> well voyager actually mentioned that they loosing shutlles and had a togh time building new ones.
[16:40] <Fred>they may have mentioned it
[16:40] <Harry_Redd> My rule of thumb is: When a series introduces NAZIS ( on "secret" Islands or in space) it is a sure sign that the producers are not accepting any new ideas.
[16:40] <SpaceCowboy> I'm a chauvinist, I'll cop to it ... Seven was hot!
[16:40] <Fred>but they didn't demonstrate it
[16:40] <Tanada> only after the fans pointed out how stupid they thought we were for not noticing
[16:41] * Paul laughs
[16:41] <Lensman> LOL! 10 of 10 works for me! Yah, I do love cheesecake! And to think they gave her a padded bosom uniform at first! Um, guys... she DOESNT NEED IT!!
[16:41] <Fred>plus there was the whole 'holodecks use a different kind of power from food replicators' debacle
[16:41] <Harry_Redd> 7 of 9? What the hell happened to the other 8?
[16:41] <Paul> Well - she had to be cybernetically enhanced...
[16:41] <SpaceCowboy> LO-O-OVE those Borg Implants!
[16:41] <Tanada> Fred, three of them were met in another episode, but they all died at the end
[16:41] <Fred>we have endless holodeck power, but we can't make food. except we can make food inside the holodecks.
[16:41] <bandersnatch> and you do that with silicone?
[16:41] <Paul> What? Holodecks are AC and replicators are DC?
[16:42] <Fred>and it never occured to them to just leave a holodeck running as a cafeteria
[16:42] <FrGeek> Borg breast implants?
[16:42] <Lensman> Fred: Yah, exactly. The power problem/non-problem was an insult to our intelligence.
[16:42] <Paul> You will be assimilated.
[16:42] <TreeHugr>Fembot machine-gun jumblies?
[16:42] <Harry_Redd> Yupper, Raday behind Raydomes!
[16:42] <Tanada> LOL, not to mention they have fusion power supply generators availible AND bussard ramscoop collectors so no possible way to run low on replicator power
[16:42] <Fred>I think Voyager bottomed out with the 'star desert' though
[16:43] <Paul> Oh, do tell
[16:43] <SpaceCowboy> Holodeck food ... a great notion, until you step out of the holodeck. Worse than Chinese food ... ten seconds and you're hungry again.
[16:43] <Fred>when they were crossing through total blackness
[16:43] <Fred>there was nothing CAUSING the blackness
[16:43] <Paul> ??
[16:43] <Fred>they were just in a gap so far from ANY STAR they couldn't see them
[16:43] <Fred>for WEEKS
[16:43] <Paul> Hmmm....
[16:43] <Paul> well - intergalactic space maybe...
[16:43] <Fred>hard to imagine isn't it?
[16:43] <Lensman> My personal nadir for Voyager was when Janeway allied with the Borg to wipe out anothe race. Um... shouldn't she have done that the other 'way round??
[16:43] <Tanada> yeah, close to the galactic core it would be blindingly starlit without dust clouds or SOMETHING to block the light
[16:43] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has joined #knownspace
[16:44] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> hey hey, it's working now
[16:44] <Fred>And they were covering the viewscreens and such to keep from going mad looking a the blackness
[16:44] <Fred>like they can't put whatever they want on the screens
[16:44] <Paul> Blackness is that scary?
[16:44] <FrGeek> Like germanese chinese resteraunt, an hour later and you are hungry for power
[16:44] <Lensman> Well if they were inside a dust cloud maybe they couldn't see any stars w/ visible light. Why is that hard to believe?
[16:44] <Harry_Redd> What Janeway should have done was promote the fighting between the Borge and the SPECIES then started mopping up the winner.
[16:44] <SpaceCowboy> LOL FrG!
[16:45] <Fred>lensman, they specifically said they weren't
[16:45] <Lensman> Fred: Well then that's why! <g>
[16:45] <Fred>they specifically said the ONLY reason for the blackness was a lack of stars in the area
[16:45] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has quit IRC (Quit: Quit)
[16:45] <Tanada> Harry, what Janeway should have done was climb out of the plane of the Galaxy and scoot home at Warp 9.75
[16:45] <Lensman> Harry: yah, "let's you and him fight" is a great strategy!
[16:45] <Fred>Tanada, yes
[16:45] <Fred>like Bey did
[16:45] <FrGeek> Reminded me of the "starless zone" in cities in flight. did not make much sense
[16:46] * nick_danger has joined #knownspace
[16:46] <TreeHugr>Typical trek psuedo-science crap, done by writers who don't know what they're writing about, and think the viewers won't either.
[16:46] <SpaceCowboy> Welcome back, Nick. Feisty connection?
[16:46] <Lensman> Oh, the had the tech to scoot themselves quite a distance towards home several times. Too bad they NEVER THOUGHT TO USE IT REPEATEDLY!!
[16:46] <Harry_Redd> Thaat too Tanada. However, the galactic Plain is a lot thicker than most people think it is.
[16:46] <Fred>Ruthless connection (I wonder where Ruth is?)
[16:46] <Tanada> Fred Exactly, if Bey had thought of it sooner he could have gone galactic north for a week, then cruised to the core region almost starless for 6 weeks
[16:47] * nick_danger is laughing at Fred.
[16:47] <FrGeek> hi nick
[16:47] <nick_danger> I switched clients. I couldn't see Fred's messages on the other one for some reason.
[16:47] <nick_danger> hi FrGeek
[16:47] <Tanada> Not at Quantuum 2 hyperdrive speeds ;)
[16:47] <SpaceCowboy> Well, there's still that nasty ol' Barrier that I theorize is the equivalent of our own heliopause ...
[16:47] <Harry_Redd> Hi Nick.
[16:48] <nick_danger> whoo hoo. a firetruck just pulled up down the road
[16:48] <nick_danger> excitement in Oswaldtwistle
[16:48] <Tanada> You mean the one from Where No Man Has Gone Before?
[16:48] <TreeHugr>Well, danger is your last name . . .
[16:48] <SpaceCowboy> Yes, T
[16:48] <Lensman> Tan: I think he's thinking of the quite similar barrier around the galactic core, in Star Trek V
[16:49] <Fred>argh
[16:49] <Paul> Anyway gang, I must be off.
[16:49] <Paul> It's been good chatting.
[16:49] <Paul> Cheers!
[16:49] <SpaceCowboy> TREK V??? PLEASE!! I could've gone all YEAR without thinking of that turkey!
[16:49] <Lensman> Thanks for chatting with us Paul!
[16:49] <SpaceCowboy> Bye, Paul
[16:49] <Harry_Redd> Adios Paul
[16:50] <Lensman> Hey, I'm not the one who brought it up! Don't kill the messenger!
[16:50] <Fred>You know Trek V was originally supposed to star Sean Connery as Sybok?
[16:50] <Paul> :)
[16:50] * Paul has quit IRC
[16:50] <FrGeek> Oh yah the qiest for peace, the only peace I got was walking out of the theater
[16:50] <Fred>He even worked on the script
[16:50] <SpaceCowboy> Until Sir Sean saw the script, I bet ...
[16:50] <Fred>the magic planet is his name without vowells
[16:50] <Fred>Sha Ka Ree
[16:51] <Lensman> Actually I don't think V was all *that* bad other than the HUH??? ending and the sucky direction.
[16:51] <Lensman> The Sybok stuff was pretty good IMHO.
[16:51] <Fred>Paramount just never got around to giving him a contract, and Lucas hired him for LAST CRUSADE instead
[16:51] <FrGeek> the whole "god" thing was poor.
[16:51] <Tanada> if I had my druthers I would edit about 50% out of V and 25% out of VI
[16:52] <Fred>Then they said "A big star like Connery -- who can we replace him with?" and of course came up with the only possible actor of his stature
[16:52] <Tanada> get rid of all the Shatner can act scenes
[16:52] <Fred>Larry Luckinbill
[16:52] <Lensman> I thought VI was excellent. Second best of the movies, right behind II.
[16:52] <Fred>VI is interesting
[16:52] <Tanada> Agerrd Lens, but when I watch it on DVD I FF through the mine scenes
[16:53] <Fred>you noted the 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea stuff?
[16:53] <Lensman> Well the "god" thing works if you say it wasn't really god... which they did seem to say at the end... but then they didn't go anywhere with it. So what *was* it?
[16:53] <Fred>Meyer was 'homaging' the 1954 Disney film heavily in Trek 6.
[16:54] <Lensman> Tan: Yah, those have no repeat value at all. Yawn.
[16:54] <Fred>he even had them narrow the Enterprise corridors and drop the lighting to make it more like the Nautilus
[16:54] <Fred>the silly thing is, he'd have gotten a LOT farther making the Klingon ship into the Nautilus
[16:54] <Fred>kirk isn't Nemo. Chang is Nemo.
[16:55] <FrGeek> Oh I know it was an alien pretebding to be God, but it was poorly done. At the end Kirk asked "why does God need a spaceship" I askedf he samr queston two hour before ;)
[16:55] * Tanada has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[16:55] <Lensman> Fred: No I never noticed any similarity between VI and Disney's "Leagues". Obviously the underlighting was to make a different mood, but I hadn't thought of it as being an analog to undersea lighting effects.
[16:56] <Fred>yeah, Meyer was going for Nautilus
[16:56] <SpaceCowboy> I briefly had a "Director's Cut" of TrekV ... principal photography, no score or VFX -- all the SPFX shots were AMT kits on sticks -- it was hilarious!
[16:56] <Fred>the prison camp? Rura Pante, the Alien graveyard? That's Rura Pante, the white man's graveyard, from LEAGUES
[16:57] <Lensman>
I guess Meyer likes submarine movies. The whole Mutaran (sp?) Nebula sequence in II was clearly copied from a WW II submarine film.
[16:57] <Fred>good point
[16:57] <Harry_Redd> THE ENEMY BELOW? Great Movie.
[16:57] <Fred>The big problem for me in 6 is that they should have had Savvik
[16:57] <FrGeek> Remember short run 70- series callled the return of catain nemo?
[16:57] <Lensman> Is there a prison camp in "Leagues"? I don't remember one.
[16:57] <Fred>sure
[16:58] <Fred>it's where Nemo and his crew escaped from
[16:58] <Fred>it's a major set piece in the film. Nemo takes Arronax there to show him the camp, before he sinks the nitrate ship
[16:58] <FrGeek> thy found the nautilus at he botton of the marias trench and found nemo in cryosuspension
[16:58] <Lensman> Are you talking about the movie or the novel? The Laser Rangers watched the movie not so long ago and I don't remember any such scene.
[16:58] <Fred>movie
[16:59] <TreeHugr>Which version?
[16:59] <Fred>frgeek, yeah, that was an irwon Allen mini series
[16:59] <Lensman> Mmmm... okay I have that DVD clearly I need to watch it again.
[16:59] <Fred>the 1954 Disney version Tree
[16:59] <Fred>when you watch the DVD lensmen?
[16:59] <Lensman> Oh please... the Irwin Allen series... and you complained about me bringing up Trek V?!?!
[16:59] <Fred>admire the Nautilus in the menu and tour and special features
[16:59] <Fred>that's all mine
[16:59] <Fred>:)
[17:01] <Lensman> !! Well I AM impressed!! Hey I have a good friend who's a regular on the Disney Nautilus forum, I'll have to tell him I've chatted with the guy who produced the DVD menus! And they are VERY nice, Ken has praised the DVD highly!
[17:01] <SpaceCowboy> I just watched 20KLUTS the other night ... they particularly talk about the Rura Pente scene when they talk about the wonderful glass matte paintings.
[17:01] <Fred>wait, no
[17:01] <Fred>I didn't produce the menus
[17:01] <Fred>I built and animated the Nautilus
[17:02] <SpaceCowboy> What format, Fred?
[17:02] <Fred>?
[17:02] <SpaceCowboy> 3DS MAX? Lightwave?
[17:02] <Fred>Electric Image
[17:02] <SpaceCowboy> REAL?
[17:02] <Lensman> Disney did the very best matte paintings, courtesy of Ellenshaw.
[17:02] <Fred>yes
[17:02] <Fred>I love Ellenshaw's work
[17:02] <Fred>never a big fan of his son though
[17:03] <SpaceCowboy> Tough to beat Ellenshaw. Didn't he also do Carpenter's "The Thing"?
[17:03] <Lensman> So, you did the computer animation of the Nautilus in the DVD menus for the Disney DVD? Have I got that right now?
[17:03] <Fred>yes :)
[17:03] <Lensman> What was his first name, Brad?
[17:03] <Fred>and the 'tour of' the ship
[17:04] <SpaceCowboy> It's beautiful work, Fred! Did you know about the non-anamorphic model they built for the film?
[17:04] <Lensman> Okay. I don't remember the tour, but I do remember there are an impressive number of extras on that DVD. I guess I know what I'll be doing after I get off this chat!
[17:04] <Fred>the non anamorphic model continues to be hotly debated
[17:04] <SpaceCowboy> It's on Disk 2, Dave.
[17:04] <Fred>I've got the blue prints for it
[17:05] <Lensman> I don't understand what "non anamorphic" means in the context of a model.
[17:05] <Fred>but as to if it ever existed, no one agrees
[17:05] <Fred>Lens, they shot the film in CinemaScope
[17:05] <Fred>which uses a distortion lens on the camera
[17:05] <Lensman> Yes, and...?
[17:05] <Fred>in 1954, there was only one lens
[17:05] <SpaceCowboy> How so, Fred? The director (Fleischer) confirms it in the audio commentary...
[17:05] <Lensman> Yes I know what anamorphic means, but what does that have to do with models?
[17:06] <Fred>Harper Goff, designer of the ship
[17:06] <Fred>suggested they build a squished model
[17:06] <Fred>and film it with a normal lens
[17:06] <Fred>to give them something to do on those days they didn't have a Cinemascope lens
[17:06] <Fred>because it was in use on THE ROBE
[17:07] <Lensman> But that wouldn't work if you looked at the model from the front or back! Or any angle except perpendicular to the side!
[17:07] <Fred>correct
[17:07] <SpaceCowboy> Scaled down on the long axis ... it looked sorta like those "pudgy airplanes" only a Nautilus.
[17:07] <oliver> I've got to log off
[17:07] * oliver has quit IRC
[17:07] <Fred>there is no evidence other than verbal that any such model ever existed
[17:08] <SpaceCowboy> Really. Hmm.
[17:08] <Fred>they actually did a weird thing recently
[17:08] <Fred>they built a Nautilus snowglobe
[17:08] <Fred>and the model on it is squeezed!
[17:08] <Lensman> Keep in mind, when people talk about something that happened decades ago, they may be remembering incorrectly. They may remember something was *talked* about and forget it never was actually done.
[17:08] <Fred>they used my stuff too
[17:08] <Fred>yes. it may also have been filmed and discarded
[17:09] <Fred>there ARE non anamorphic shots in the film
[17:09] <Fred>including ones of the ship
[17:09] <Fred>but it's the regualr ship
[17:09] <Lensman> So how many models were there, used in filming?
[17:09] <Fred>that we're certain of?
[17:09] <Fred>there's the 11 footer
[17:10] <Fred>and the 22 foot deck waterline model
[17:10] <Fred>and the full size deck
[17:10] <Fred>there is also supposedly an iron silouette cutout that they tossed overboard in the bahamas when they were done with ti
[17:10] <Lensman> The smallest model used was 11 ft? Wow! That's huge for film work!
[17:10] <Fred>but again, there's no evidence of it, either
[17:11] <Lensman> The most often used model of the Enterprise on Classic Trek was, what, 4 ft?
[17:12] <SpaceCowboy> I think there's a photo of the silhouette in the Gallery on Disk 2 ... but I can't tell if it's metal.
[17:12] <Lensman> Of co